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Topic: Top 25

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MrNubbz

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #434 on: November 15, 2019, 12:11:36 PM »
And I'm no sports psychologist, but anecdotally I buy that reasoning.
Well a 12 pack,fire place and 2 people - you have philosophy,anyhoo gonna need that EggNog recipe - the season is coming
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FearlessF

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #435 on: November 15, 2019, 12:18:15 PM »
sheer psychological fatigue

I can buy this, since it's important to be locked in for 3 or 4 practices during the week.

two weeks in a row can't be quite as bad.  The Gophers haven't run the gauntlet until PSU 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #436 on: November 15, 2019, 12:20:29 PM »
of course the Hawkeyes had a loss to the physical Badgers last week
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #437 on: November 15, 2019, 12:22:04 PM »
Go Goophs
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Cincydawg

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #438 on: November 15, 2019, 12:24:23 PM »
If they win at Iowa, I think it means a lot, almost as much as the PSU win (which had they lost would have relegated them).

CWSooner

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #439 on: November 15, 2019, 02:24:00 PM »
On Utah vs OU....

Utah didn't have any close wins before this past weekend.  OU beat Texas by 7, the loss, and ISU by 1 point.  Whether it should matter or not, I think it does.  That's 3 uninspiring results out of their last 4 games, so the timing sort of makes sense.
You left out vs. WVU, a 52-14 win.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #440 on: November 15, 2019, 02:36:35 PM »
The Pac is nearly all 4-5 and 5-4 teams (two 6-4 and one 4-6) plus the two 8-1 teams.  That is a collection of mediocrity, aside from Oregon and Utah, both of whom look pretty solid to me.  Oregon could easily be 9-0 of course with one break.

Presuming one of them finishes 12-1 and OU is 12-1, we'd have a "discussion" with one spot remaining.

Kris60

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #441 on: November 15, 2019, 03:36:00 PM »
I don't know if it's "press clippings" so much as sheer psychological fatigue.  Many college athletes have said it's only possible to get sky high-- and mentally sharp-- for a couple games per season.  It's just human nature, you can't be "UP" for every single game.  Most humans don't work that way.

So simple human nature could dictate they play down to the mean, not because they're full of themselves, but simply because it's too difficult and exhausting to keep getting UP over and over again.Eventiually it''' catch up to you and you'll have a DOWN day.  Will that be this weekend? Stay tuned... :)


And I'm no sports psychologist, but anecdotally I buy that reasoning.
Oh, I totally buy into this 100%.  Back in 2012, WVU went to Austin to play Texas.  Both teams were undefeated.  WVU was number 8 and Texas was number 11 I believe.  It was Fox’s prime time game and one of the more anticipated games of the weekend.  It turned out to be a great game that WVU won 48-45.  After the game all of the WVU players were really celebrating the win on the sideline.  You could tell it was really a huge win for the them and they had put a lot of emotion into it.

I can distinctly remember seeing how happy they were and how much it meant to them and I had a very sobering thought.  “We’re gonna get beat at Texas Tech next weekend.”  I knew there was no way they would be able to come down from that high and put the game in the past to focus on TT and another road game.  In fact, Tech would be the team more focused on that game given WVU’s big win and move up in the polls.  Tech rolled them 49-14 the next Saturday.

Now, obviously this isn’t something you can bank on all the time.  For instance, I’m not expecting on LSU losing to Ole Miss this weekend (although I wouldn’t be surprised if they look sloppy).  But this Iowa-Minnesota game just feels like a game that the Minnesota kids are still going to be reliving PSU on Tuesday while Iowa is laser focused on the the Gophers.  I love Iowa in this spot.  In fact, if Minnesota wins this I might be more impressed with that than the PSU win.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #442 on: November 15, 2019, 04:02:56 PM »
Oh, I totally buy into this 100%.  Back in 2012, WVU went to Austin to play Texas.  Both teams were undefeated.  WVU was number 8 and Texas was number 11 I believe.  It was Fox’s prime time game and one of the more anticipated games of the weekend.  It turned out to be a great game that WVU won 48-45.  After the game all of the WVU players were really celebrating the win on the sideline.  You could tell it was really a huge win for the them and they had put a lot of emotion into it.

I can distinctly remember seeing how happy they were and how much it meant to them and I had a very sobering thought.  “We’re gonna get beat at Texas Tech next weekend.”  I knew there was no way they would be able to come down from that high and put the game in the past to focus on TT and another road game.  In fact, Tech would be the team more focused on that game given WVU’s big win and move up in the polls.  Tech rolled them 49-14 the next Saturday.

Now, obviously this isn’t something you can bank on all the time.  For instance, I’m not expecting on LSU losing to Ole Miss this weekend (although I wouldn’t be surprised if they look sloppy).  But this Iowa-Minnesota game just feels like a game that the Minnesota kids are still going to be reliving PSU on Tuesday while Iowa is laser focused on the the Gophers.  I love Iowa in this spot.  In fact, if Minnesota wins this I might be more impressed with that than the PSU win.
I will be for the reasons that you listed and also because it will give them two quality wins.  Right now they have one but anytime we are talking about one game I always have in the back of my mind that the one game we are talking about could have just been an unusually good game for the winner or an unusually bad game for the winner, those things happen.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #443 on: November 15, 2019, 04:18:08 PM »
A lot of things that happen in sports are just randomness asserting itself.  In one game, the QB just randomly makes a ton of throws, and in another, he misses by THAT MUCH on some throws that go pick 6 and INC.  A fumble bounces out of bounds.  A tipped pass falls to the turf.  A penalty is called that was borderline, or not.  A certain play happens to be called at just the right time.  A defensive player misses a key assignment.

It's not all skill and preparation.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #444 on: November 15, 2019, 04:19:58 PM »
If Baylor wins out, it will have two victories over OU and a win over Texas in addition to what it's got now.  And it will have virtually no way of getting into the CFP because there are too many teams ahead of it who perhaps are ranked higher than they should be.
I disagree with your assumption that Baylor can't get to the CFP.  

They are currently 9-0 and 13th.  There are very good reasons for them to only be 13th:
  • Their OOC was pathetic.  Stephen F. Austin is an FCS team and a bad one at that.  UTSA is a midling CUSA team and Rice is winless and fighting it out with Akron for #1 in the Bottom 10.  
  • Their nine wins include multiple close calls against mediocre teams:  They beat 5-4 ISU by two at home, they beat woeful Rice by only 8, they beat sub .500 TxTech by only a FG at home, they beat 3-6 WVU by just a FG at home, and they beat sub .500 TCU by one score as well.  

All of that said, last week Minnesota got their first quality win and vaulted up nine spots to 8th from 17th.  If Baylor beats #10 Oklahoma this weekend I expect them to jump over at least Oklahoma, Auburn, and Florida.  That alone would get them to #10 without any upsets.  Then the next week they host #19 Texas while #9 PSU travels to #2 Ohio State.  If they back up the hypothetical OU win with a hypothetical TX win they'll likely jump the tOSU/PSU loser which would put them even with the two 12-1 PAC teams (Oregon and Utah).  

Note, I'm assuming here that by that time (after the 11/23 games) Minnesota will either be 11-0 and ahead of the two PAC teams or not 11-0 and no longer a problem for Baylor.  

Then in the final weekend Baylor has woeful Kansas but there are a whole lot of opportunities for upsets ahead of them:
  • #1 LSU has aTm
  • #2 tOSU has #15 Michigan on the road
  • #3 Clemson . . . nevermind
  • #4 Georgia's best opportunity for an upset is this weekend
  • #5 Bama has Auburn on the road
  • #6 Oregon has a rivalry game against OrSU
  • #7 Utah has Colorado
  • #8 Minnesota has #14 Wisconsin

Then on CG weekend, the Bears (at 12-0) would most likely get another shot at Oklahoma.  If it isn't Oklahoma it will be a B12 team that wins out from here and is pretty highly ranked.  Meanwhile:
  • Either #1 LSU or #4 UGA will lose (if they haven't already), and
  • Either #2 tOSU or #8 Minnesota will lose (if they haven't already), and
  • Either #6 Oregon or #7 Utah will lose (if they haven't already).  
  • #5 Bama will not have an opportunity to impress the committee with a game against a highly ranked opponent while Baylor will.  

If Baylor wins out I confidently predict not only that they will make the CFP, but that they will be seeded no worse than behind these three potential higher seeds:
  • LSU, if they win out
  • Clemson, if they win out
  • tOSU/MN if one of them wins out

They will be ahead of the potential 12-1 PAC Champion and ahead of a potential 11-1 Bama.  At 13-0 Baylor is in.  


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #445 on: November 15, 2019, 04:25:27 PM »
Well the highlighted parts are related, lol.  The reason why ranking teams by number of losses is a bad idea is context & statistical validity.  Thank you for supporting it with your 2nd highlighted comment, which is the whole point. 

People aren't good at thoroughly measuring proper context.  When we debate teams, we often just talk about best wins, best losses, weakest best win, and/or worst loss.  The extremes.  Part of it is related to how we remember the first and last numbers of a list and the first and last sounds of a word.  The middle gets jumbled in our brains.  We're unlikely to differentiate the wins over 7-5 teams vs 4-8 teams, somewhat because it requires more effort and somewhat because we think it all evens out in the wash. 

But it doesn't, necessarily.
Another mistake that I think we and the committee sometimes make is to try to make bright line distinctions by viewing teams as things like:
  • Either ranked or unranked, or
  • Either at/above .500 or at/below .500.  

In both cases I think that can be very misleading.  When we talk about "wins over ranked teams" I think it is important to realize that this creates a false dichotomy in which every team is either ranked or not ranked.  That isn't fair because there is a big difference between playing #1 and playing #25 and there is an even bigger difference between playing the best unranked team and playing the worst unranked team.  

Similarly, when we talk about wins over bowl teams that creates a false dichotomy in which every team is either 6-6+ or 5-7-.  That isn't fair either because there is a big difference between playing a 6-6 Sun Belt team and playing a 13-0 P5 team and there is a similar difference between playing a 5-7 P5 team that played a tough OOC and playing an 0-12 Sun Belt team that didn't.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #446 on: November 15, 2019, 04:28:12 PM »
I don't know if it's "press clippings" so much as sheer psychological fatigue.  Many college athletes have said it's only possible to get sky high-- and mentally sharp-- for a couple games per season.  It's just human nature, you can't be "UP" for every single game.  Most humans don't work that way.

So simple human nature could dictate they play down to the mean, not because they're full of themselves, but simply because it's too difficult and exhausting to keep getting UP over and over again.Eventiually it''' catch up to you and you'll have a DOWN day.  Will that be this weekend? Stay tuned... :)

And I'm no sports psychologist, but anecdotally I buy that reasoning.
I agree and I think it is harder when you are trying to do it back-to-back and even harder when it is three or more games in a row.  This is why I think it was insane of the B1G to force their traditionally best team to (possibly) play back-to-back-to-back games against two typically stout border rivals and the B1G-W Champion leading into potentially playing back-to-back games against two CFP qualifiers.  If Ohio State has to do all of that it will certainly be the toughest five game stretch that any team has ever faced in CFB.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 25
« Reply #447 on: November 15, 2019, 04:30:10 PM »
No question, and being ranked 26th ARV is not different from 25th.  Beating a decent team ARV should be a something.

And a team like A&M might be a decent team with a poor record simply because of schedule, the anti-Baylor.  

 

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