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Topic: The Big East after Realignment

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OrangeAfroMan

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The Big East after Realignment
« on: July 25, 2019, 02:01:14 AM »
2003 Big East Roster:
Miami, WV, Pitt, VA Tech, BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004 Big East Roster:
WV, Pitt, BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple, UConn

then...

2005 Big East Roster:
WV, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, Cincinnati





It still had the bowl tie-in, sending its champ to the Fiesta/Sugar/Orange.
This was before WV went to the XII.  Was the 2004 and/or 2005 Big East champion a legit, "P5" champ?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

LittlePig

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2019, 05:46:27 AM »
Since the term P5 was created after the 2010-2014 realignments that resulted in the creation of the CFP and the 6 committee bowls, and since that realignment ultimately resulted in the Big East football conference being picked apart until all that was left was a G5 football conference, then it obviously was not a  P5 conference.

The key question is the Big East considered a P5 conference today?  The answer is no.  So the foundation was never there to become a P5 conference.  You can't be the 6th conference in a 5 conference category.   You are not an Olympic athlete if you almost make the Olympic team.  The Big East may have been considered for P5 membership but sorry they just didn't make the final cut.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 05:56:38 AM by LittlePig »

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2019, 12:19:28 PM »
WV, Pitt, Syracuse and even Rutgers were far and away better than just about anything in the G5. Louisville and Cincinnati were up-and-comers. Temple and USF were without a doubt G5 quality (at best).

So I'd say they'd be the redheaded stepchild of the P5-type conferences, as they didn't have any real "powerhouses", but still a major step up from the rest of the G5. 

And while this doesn't make sense from a pure football standpoint, their prowess in basketball raised the standing of the conference significantly. It shouldn't necessarily help them in football, but in my mind, it does. They were considered a legit athletic conference, that was just much stronger in basketball than football.

Kinda like Indiana or Kansas or Duke aren't exactly P5-level football programs, but their basketball programs are strong enough that they're never in danger of getting tossed from their conferences due to lack of football prowess.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2019, 01:41:59 PM »
Yes, although technically a "BCS" Conference, and not a "P5" as already noted. 

The best season was the one where the Big East and SWC simultaneously existed. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2019, 06:51:25 PM »
This is for my game, as "mid-major" teams will get a downgrade, so you don't have a Boise State team slaughtering a lower-scoring LSU-type team over half the time.  
Since it's based on the actual statistics, I need to reel in the Other 5-type teams with big offenses.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2019, 11:50:26 PM »
This creates an interesting slant, though.  The votes say the Big East was not in the in-crowd in terms of conference strength.  Thank you for all of the voting, I really appreciate the participation.




But now I have a new question - are those programs who were P5-type before the Big East was poached and went on to become P5 again in time (WV, Pitt, BC, and Syracuse) considered less-than during those seasons?  Yes, those programs suddenly found themselves in a weaker conference, but did that make those individual programs themselves fall in terms of hierarchy?



It feels wrong to deem 2005 West Virginia a mid-major like Boise or pre-PAC Utah.  WV had a "P5" roster and won the Sugar Bowl that year.  So can the programs be in the in-crowd despite being in a less-than conference for a few seasons?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2019, 09:42:28 AM »
I would say those programs you named retain their status.
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847badgerfan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2019, 09:43:58 AM »
Kinda like Indiana or Kansas or Duke aren't exactly P5-level football programs, but their basketball programs are strong enough that they're never in danger of getting tossed from their conferences due to lack of football prowess.
One of those is not like the other two.

It's been a long time since IU was strong in hoops.
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rolltidefan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2019, 09:57:35 AM »
I would say those programs you named retain their status.
i'd say they retain their status, but i'm not sure that status was that great to begin with.

big east was barely a bcs level conf with miami and vt. and outside of wvu, those other aren't much more than the boise/utah/tcu's of the 00's. good enough to put a good team together and win a good bowl, but not consistently.

FearlessF

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2019, 10:00:43 AM »
Miami before Smellenburger and VT before Beamer?
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rolltidefan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2019, 11:24:39 AM »
miami didn't join be until well after snellenberger. and i didn't mean to discredit miami, they were a force well before, during, and maybe after the bigeast.

vt, on the other hand, wasn't. does no one else remember the outcry from the 99 title game, and how vt was some lowly team from a weak conference? but they had vick and were undefeated.

the bigeast just always seemed like by far the weakest of the bcs6.

847badgerfan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2019, 11:29:08 AM »
I like it when UW gets to beat up on Miami.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2019, 11:38:30 AM »
Kinda like Indiana or Kansas or Duke aren't exactly P5-level football programs, but their basketball programs are strong enough that they're never in danger of getting tossed from their conferences due to lack of football prowess.
At one point when it seemed that the B12 might crumble it actually did appear that Kansas might find themselves without a major conference home.  

Their BB program is obviously one of the true Blue Bloods but they just don't bring a lot to the table in terms of what conferences are looking for today.  Ie, there aren't many eyeballs in Kansas.  

847badgerfan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2019, 11:42:24 AM »
I think there are plenty of eyeballs in Kansas, but they are all over the place. You've got KSU pulling some of them. You've got Missouri pulling some of them. I'm guessing UNL and OU pull their share too.

Realignment wasn't about hoops at all - except for the Big East - which is now a hoops conference, period.
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