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Topic: The Big East after Realignment

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Kris60

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2019, 02:53:23 PM »



they were better than the "other 5" or whatever. but, imo, they were a clear step down from the p5 too. somewhere in the middle. i don't have thebobs site to look again, and maybe i'm mis-remembering, but we've had numerous "best conf" discussions ever since i've been a part of this board, and i think it always had the bigeast lingering in between the p5 and g5. p5 generally have a .45-.5 record vs each other, and a >.75 record vs everyone else. while g5 usually have a .3-.35 vs p5 and .55-.6 vs everyone else. i might be mistaken, but it always seemed like the bigeast was just behind the p5 and above the g5.

maybe i'm being too harsh. i just don't remember being impressed with the bigeast much more than i am the aac right now (which is a pretty good conf, btw) or the mwc a few years back with tcu and utah. bigeast always just seemed like a collection of good, not great teams, with no major players sans miami. all the other p5/bcs confs seemed to have multiple big hitters or at least historical big hitters. looking back, maybe acc wasn't much ahead of them though.
I’ll have to carve out time to research it but, yeah, your perception is wrong on that.  The BE OOC numbers were always much more in line with the other power conferences than the G5’s.  The problem, which you alluded to, was the names of the schools.  

Kris60

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2019, 10:23:00 PM »



they were better than the "other 5" or whatever. but, imo, they were a clear step down from the p5 too. somewhere in the middle. i don't have thebobs site to look again, and maybe i'm mis-remembering, but we've had numerous "best conf" discussions ever since i've been a part of this board, and i think it always had the bigeast lingering in between the p5 and g5. p5 generally have a .45-.5 record vs each other, and a >.75 record vs everyone else. while g5 usually have a .3-.35 vs p5 and .55-.6 vs everyone else. i might be mistaken, but it always seemed like the bigeast was just behind the p5 and above the g5.

maybe i'm being too harsh. i just don't remember being impressed with the bigeast much more than i am the aac right now (which is a pretty good conf, btw) or the mwc a few years back with tcu and utah. bigeast always just seemed like a collection of good, not great teams, with no major players sans miami. all the other p5/bcs confs seemed to have multiple big hitters or at least historical big hitters. looking back, maybe acc wasn't much ahead of them though.
Big East OOC records from 2005-2011.

vs. G5/FCS-  146-20 (.879)
vs. P5- 63-75 (.456).  This includes games against Notre Dame as well.

I didn’t look at the BE in 2004 (before UL, USF, and Cincy joined, BC’s last season) or 2012 (after WVU left and Temple came back for one season) just because they were weird, one off seasons for the league.  But once the league gained some stability for those 7 seasons after the departures it performed at a P5 level even if the schools doing it weren’t historically thought of as P5 schools.

I promise if you if you compare these numbers to other leagues during this time you will find they have much more in common with the P5’s than the G5’s and I don’t think they would be a “clear step” down from them. If memory serves the ACC would come in around .470 or .480 while the closest G5 (Mountain West?) would be somewhere around .31-.330.  I added these numbers manually because I couldn’t find bobs website.  So if they aren’t 100% accurate it’s just error on my part but it would just change a couple games at most either way.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 06:29:57 AM by Kris60 »

rook119

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2019, 11:10:35 PM »
Think the BE for much of the 00s was better than the ACC. The arguable marquee team at the time, WVU, if you look at their record back in RR days just obliterated teams in non-con and won their major bowl games (the teams that gave WVU trouble were always in conference). The other good teams also took their fair share of scalps in non-con as well. UL was very good for stretches, Pitt and Cincy fielded good teams, RU stepped it up a bit, USF was once ranked in the top 5. 

side topic: maybe leaving was eventually inevitable w/ conf realignment kicked up to 11 at the time but I still think Miami leaving for the ACC really more than anything dropped the hammer on their football program and they haven't recovered (won't?). 

In the I-95 corridor as a BE team from DC to Boston they were (while not universally loved) every bit as popular as ND was/is there. Now they are just an also-ran in the southeast's basketball division. A L to FSU or say another top 10 non-con never mattered because they could still win the conference w/ a 10-2, 11-1 record and go to a major bowl, stay relevant/ranked high and easily obtain talent. With the conference being small and admittedly not the strongest, they could also easily regroup after sanctions/down years as well. Today a loss to Clemson or FSU even though they play in other division pretty much sinks them even if they are good. The major media markets don't pay attention anymore because they are avg and they aren't travelling up to the NE 4-5 times a year anymore. 

They ruled the conference. Playing Miami was a huge event and the national media always covered it. These days WVU gets Oklahoma and Texas. VT, SU, BC, Pitt get #1 Clemson or FSU on their schedule. However (even if Miami wasn't ranked top 5) I think all of those fanbases will say the atmosphere and hype for the likes of Clemson and Oklahoma were not anything like the Miami game. And sure yes Miami is on the sched but its miami, not MIAMI. 


Kris60

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2019, 11:56:54 PM »
What is really interesting about the BE is that from a performance perspective the league probably did better after the initial split in 2003.

Rutgers, WVU, and Pitt were all better programs after the split than before and not just because the league supposedly got easier. There was no historically awful team like Temple to bring the numbers down. Miami was really good at the start and end of their run in the BE but pretty meh in between those years.  USF, UConn, Cincinnati and UL all came in and performed well above their historical reputations.


The perception of the league is probably better during the 90s but record wise it was probably the post split years that were the best.


rolltidefan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2019, 11:00:32 AM »
those wvu teams with pat white were fun to watch. hard to believe it's been that long ago.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Big East after Realignment
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2019, 11:22:32 PM »
I loved when they smacked UGA in the Sugar Bowl.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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