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Topic: Teams from the 1940s

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MarqHusker

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2020, 01:47:31 AM »
There's some great youtube vids of that pregame banter.   Amazing how certain qualified predictions stick to people forever.    Beano's 'Powlus will win two heismans...at least.'  being another dandy.   Picking Florida would be innocent enough, but making the call based on the surface was the death blow.

MichiFan87

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2020, 01:55:56 AM »
I said this elsewhere but the 1940s was probably Michigan's best decade post-Yost (argument can certainly be made for the 70s, 80s, and 90s) with the 1947 and 1948 teams being particularly dominant. You can find some neat videos of those teams, too. They had a very intricate offense and were nicknamed the Mad Magicians. Supposedly Kansas City replicated one of their plays in their Super Bowl win.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2020, 01:56:37 AM »
Beano Cook forgot more about college football than I'll ever learn, BUT his last few years on air were rough.  Same with Corso, but in a different way.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2020, 08:02:14 AM »
http://www.tiptop25.com/fixing1942.html

Ohio State 1942
1942 Ohio State football team


Fort Knox59-0
Indiana (7-3)32-21#23
Southern Cal (5-5-1)28-12#25
Purdue (1-8)26-0
at Northwestern (1-9)20-6
at Wisconsin (8-1-1)7-17#3
Pittsburgh (3-6)59-19
Illinois (6-4)44-20#20
Michigan (7-3)21-7#9
Iowa Pre-Flight (7-3)41-12(#21)

Ohio State football coach Paul BrownOhio State had been a minor team playing mostly other minor Ohio schools through 1912. In that time, they did not defeat a Western Conference (Big 10) opponent, though they tied Illinois and Indiana in 1902 and Michigan in 1910 (Hall of Famer Howard Jones was OSU's coach in 1910). They did defeat Vanderbilt, a Southern powerhouse at the time, in 1908 and 1909.

Ohio State joined the Western Conference in 1913, and that was also the debut season for Hall of Fame coach John Wilce, who built OSU into a major player. They went 7-0 in 1916 to win their first conference title, though their schedule wasn't nearly strong enough for MNC contention. They went unbeaten again the next season, but a tie in their finale at Auburn left them 8-0-1. In 1919 they appeared to be headed for their first MNC, but they lost a close, dramatic game to Illinois in their finale to finish 6-1. In 1920, they went 7-0, but then they got stomped by MNC California in the Rose Bowl. OSU fell back to mediocre after that, but Wilce still ended up 78-33-9 with 3 conference titles in his 16 years there.

Ohio State came back and fielded a top 25 caliber team for 13 straight years 1928-1940, but rarely top 10, and not much of a threat to win an MNC. That all changed with the hire of head coach Paul Brown (pictured at left) in 1941. He went 6-1-1 in 1941 (#8), then 9-1 this season to bring home OSU's first national championship. This was the year Ohio State transitioned from a B-level power to A-level, where they have been ever since.

Prior to taking the wheel at Ohio State, Paul Brown had been an exceedingly successful high school coach, going 80-8-2 at Massillon 1932-1940 and winning 6 state championships. They had been 2-10 the year before he took over
, but by the time he left, they were a high school powerhouse with a $300,000 stadium that could seat all of the residents of Massillon, and they had a higher attendance than every college in Ohio except Ohio State. Brown only coached at Ohio State for 3 seasons, and his war-depleted 1943 team went just 3-6, so he was but 18-8-1 at OSU overall. He then went 15-5-2 as coach of Great Lakes Navy 1944-1945.

His next head coaching position, and the one for which he is now most famous, was with the Browns-- he was their first-ever coach, of course, and the one for whom the team was named. He went 111-44-5 there, winning his conference 10 straight years and capturing 3 NFL championships. In 1968 he co-founded the Bengals and became their first coach. He ended up 166-100-6 for his career, and he is in the pro Hall of Fame.


Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2020, 08:03:46 AM »
Georgia 1942
at Kentucky (3-6-1)7-6
(Macon) Jacksonville NAS (9-3)14-0(#30-40)
Furman (3-6)40-7
(Memphis) Mississippi (2-7)48-13
Tulane (4-5)40-0#14
at Cincinnati (8-2)35-13(#30-40)
Alabama (8-3)21-10#6
(Jacksonville) Florida (3-7)75-0
Tennessee-Chattanooga (7-4)40-0
(Columbus) Auburn (6-4-1)13-27#13
Georgia Tech (9-2)34-0#4
Rose Bowl
UCLA (7-4)

9-0

#18

Georgia football coach Wally ButtsGeorgia's first finish in a top 25, had there been an AP top 25, would have been 1920, when they went 8-0-1. That team tied 5-2-2 Virginia, who was not at all a top 25 team, but Georgia's straight record would likely have gotten them ranked about #21-25 (I have them #21). The next year they got ambitious and took on Harvard and Dartmouth, losing both games, but they tied 7-0-1 Vanderbilt to finish 7-2-1, and would have been ranked #21-25 again (I have them #23). The coach during this time was Herman Stegeman, who went 20-6-1 in a brief 3-year career.

He was followed by George Woodruff 1923-1927, who was mediocre until his final season, going 30-16-1. In 1923 Georgia started playing Yale in New Haven every year, losing their first 4 games up there, but in 1927 they got a breakthrough 14-10 win 
over a Yale team that finished 7-1 and claims an MNC. Georgia finished 9-1 that year, and the school claims an MNC itself for 1927, though I disagree with that one. If there had been an AP poll in 1927, Georgia would have finished about #6 (I have them #5). Still, it was a breakthrough season for Georgia, and they would go 3-1 against Yale through the rest of that series.

In the 1930s, Georgia fielded 4 top 25 caliber teams, but none that were top 10. In 1939 they hired Hall of Fame coach Wally Butts (pictured), and he would stick around through 1960, going 140-86-9 with 4 SEC titles and 2 school-claimed MNCs (this season and 1946). But his teams weren't consistently strong, only 7 of his 22 seasons being worthy of a top 25 finish.

Georgia had gone 9-1-1 in 1941, capped with a 40-26 win over TCU in the Orange Bowl and a #15 ranking in the fixed AP poll. Their best player returned for 1942, and expectations were high this season.


Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2020, 08:05:59 AM »
UGA only claims 1942, unlike the two others he cites.  I know 1942 is a debatable claim because of Ohio State which had a much better loss, but not as good a win.  These claims don't really bother me much, at times they are amusing (Alabama).  UGA was finding their best players from the midwest, PA and IL in particular in this era, which is not a surprise really.  Georgia football in HS at the time was rudimentary in comparison.  Even when I was in HS it was not that well developed in terms of facilities and coaching.

Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2020, 08:11:17 AM »
Georgia's star player was Hall of Fame halfback Frank Sinkwich (pictured above at left), a consensus All American in 1941 and 1942. He finished 4th in the Heisman vote in 1941, and this year he won it, the SEC's first Heisman recipient. Moreover, he was the AP athlete of the year for all sports. Sinkwich was born in Croatia and raised in Youngstown, Ohio, but somehow Georgia got him out from under Ohio State's nose. In 1941 he led the nation in rushing with 1103 yards, then capped that with a spectacular performance in Georgia's Orange Bowl win over Texas Christian. He was 9 of 13 passing for 243 yards and 3 touchdowns, and he rushed for 139 yards and another touchdown. He came into this season as the Heisman favorite, and he did not disappoint.

Georgia leaned heavily on its passing game this season, and Sinkwich was the main triggerman, throwing for 1392 yards and 10 touchdowns. He also rushed for 795 yards and 17 touchdowns, giving him a total offense of 2187 yards, then an NCAA record. For his career, he totaled 2271 rushing with 30 touchdowns and 2331 passing with another 30 touchdowns. After college, he was all-pro in 1944 and 1945, and the NFL MVP in 1945, but a knee injury that season ended his career early.

And Georgia had another Hall of Fame halfback in Charlie Trippi (pictured above at right). Trippi was a back-up for much of this season, but he saw heavy play and racked up 1239 yards of total offense. He started two games, against Auburn and in the Rose Bowl (in place of an injured Frank Sinkwich), where he was the leading rusher with 115 yards and was the game's MVP. After returning to Georgia from service in the military, Trippi would be a consensus AA in 1946 and winner of the Maxwell Award. He played for the Chicago Cardinals 1947-1955, was a 3-time All-Pro, and he is in the Pro Hall of Fame.

End George Poschner was a nonconsensus AA this season. He went to high school with Frank Sinkwich, and Sinkwich had accepted a scholarship to attend Georgia under the condition that Poschner be given one as well. Poschner was injured by machine gun fire at the Battle of the Bulge in 1945 and lost both legs and several fingers. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Distinguished Service Cross, and Purple Heart.

Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2020, 08:14:36 AM »
CFB changed rather dramatically due to the war with most players going into the service or playing for teams of schools like Iowa Preflight where they were in military training.  Many athletes (and movie stars) were not only in the service, but also garnered some serious combat time.

"We" tend to overlook their service contributions because few of them referred to it.  Ted Williams of course is someone remarkable for his service in WW Two and Korea, but hardly the only example.  Hats off.  Williams spent some prime years in fighter jets.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 08:20:46 AM by Cincydawg »

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2020, 09:05:46 AM »
In 1944 his hand picked successor Ryan Day, er, Carroll Widdoes went undefeated and finished second behind Army. QB Les Horvath was the first Heisman winner.
I read somewhere that someone referred to Ohio State 1944 as the "Civilian National Champion".  I honestly think that is a more legitimate NC claim than some others.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2020, 09:08:32 AM »
That all changed with the hire of head coach Paul Brown (pictured at left) in 1941. He went 6-1-1 in 1941 (#8), then 9-1 this season to bring home OSU's first national championship. This was the year Ohio State transitioned from a B-level power to A-level, where they have been ever since.

Prior to taking the wheel at Ohio State, Paul Brown had been an exceedingly successful high school coach, going 80-8-2 at Massillon 1932-1940 and winning 6 state championships. They had been 2-10 the year before he took over
, but by the time he left, they were a high school powerhouse with a $300,000 stadium that could seat all of the residents of Massillon, and they had a higher attendance than every college in Ohio except Ohio State. Brown only coached at Ohio State for 3 seasons, and his war-depleted 1943 team went just 3-6, so he was but 18-8-1 at OSU overall. He then went 15-5-2 as coach of Great Lakes Navy 1944-1945.

His next head coaching position, and the one for which he is now most famous, was with the Browns-- he was their first-ever coach, of course, and the one for whom the team was named. He went 111-44-5 there, winning his conference 10 straight years and capturing 3 NFL championships. In 1968 he co-founded the Bengals and became their first coach. He ended up 166-100-6 for his career, and he is in the pro Hall of Fame.
I have said before and I'll say it again here that in my opinion, Paul Brown was the best coach to ever coach in this league.  

You can't call him the best B1G coach because he only coached three years and only went 18-8-1, but I think that when you consider the sum of his accomplishments at the HS, college, and NFL levels, he was the greatest coach of all time.  

FearlessF

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2020, 10:07:28 AM »

I've been researching 45 Army in an attempt to offer it for Whoa Nellie and learned they were "only" a 6.5 point favorite vs Navy that year.  Now sure, the was the best Navy team in forever, but still.  Army was an all-time top team. 
well, when a big win was 6-0 or 13-7

the Big 12 hadn't invented good offense or crappy defense in 45
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Cincydawg

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2020, 11:29:10 AM »
The interesting comment was how Ohio State moved from a "B" to an "A" in this decade, which I think is reasonably true.  Georgia started to move from a C to a B, but the 1950s were pretty mediocre for the Dawgs.  Also note how Sinkwich passed a lot, as OAM was noting.  The QB/RB specialization had not happened much, yet.

rolltidefan

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2020, 12:58:42 PM »
This is an MNC Alabama claims for some reason, perhaps the most dubious of the lot.  The world in 1941 was becoming a very troubled place obviously.  Germany had overrun France in May 1940 and then much of the rest of Europe.

http://www.tiptop25.com/champ1941.html

Duquesne also finished 8-0, including a big 16-0 win over SEC champion Mississippi State (8-1-1, #12 in fixed AP poll), but their schedule was otherwise bereft of competition, and they struggled to win against Villanova and St. Vincent's (Pennsylvania). They are ranked #6 in the fixed AP poll, and they are not a contender for the MNC.

Alabama actually claims an MNC for this season, despite the fact that they were 9-2, ranked #20 in the AP poll (they rise to #13 in the fixed poll), and they finished tied for 5th in the SEC with 8-2 Vanderbilt, who beat them. This has to be the worst MNC claim of all time, utterly senseless. The claim is based on Alabama finishing #1 in the relatively obscure Houlgate math formula, and it is the only MNC claim a school has made based on Houlgate (Sagarin is far more respected, and no school claims an MNC based on Sagarin). No school has ever rescinded an MNC claim, so I suppose Alabama is stuck with this one, but it seems to me that it would be much less embarrassing for Alabama to rescind the claim than to continue with their ridiculous "1941 national champions" charade.

wish bama would drop this one and if they have to, pick up one of either 1945 or 1966. both are undefeated/untied major bowl winning teams (rose in 45, sugar in 66). not to discredit army in 45, they deserve it for sure, but there's plenty of shared titles and this one makes much better sense for bama to claim a share of than 41. 66 would be the best, but we'll get to that when cincy makes his 60's thread i guess.

rolltidefan

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Re: Teams from the 1940s
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2020, 01:07:26 PM »
well, when a big win was 6-0 or 13-7

the Big 12 hadn't invented good offense or crappy defense in 45

army's average mov was over 40. their smallest mov for the season was 19.

 

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