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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17374 on: February 14, 2022, 11:12:40 AM »
Perhaps folks in critical condition are surviving longer now with treatment, but still don't make it.
Could be.  Overall the number of hospital cases rose dramatically but didn't translate into deaths, hospitals said that because the symptoms were so much milder than previous mutations they were processing people in and out quickly.  So the above statement doesn't really jive with with non-critical hospital cases, but perhaps critical cases are lingering longer.

Or perhaps there's something else in the numbers, to lh320's point, the whole "dying with COVID" rather than "dying from COVID."

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17375 on: February 14, 2022, 11:17:59 AM »
I think folks have gotten better at treating this now, and with heroic efforts some may linger.  

Hopefully more critical cases are pulling through.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17376 on: February 14, 2022, 11:30:59 AM »
Perhaps folks in critical condition are surviving longer now with treatment, but still don't make it.
Maybe, but I haven't seen that in other state or country data. 

Could also be an aberration due to reporting days. Many states aren't reporting 7 days a week now, so I've seen some lag in Worldometers data as new reports come on and they have to backfill for those states.

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17377 on: February 14, 2022, 11:31:38 AM »
I doubt anyone dies directly of COVID, it is possible though, I think nearly all die of pneumonia or related disease enabled by a COVID infection.
If you die of a disease enabled by covid then you died from covid

look its simple dont make it hard

many people have covid but die from something not associated with covid in any way that they would have died from without covid

those or the cases Im talking about

in short its to both the hospitals and doctors benefit to associate deaths to covid because of the reimbursements
available
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17378 on: February 14, 2022, 12:32:38 PM »
Eh, I think the whole "dying from COVID" vs "dying with COVID" is a complete sleight of hand. And strangely, the only people who EVER bring that up are the people already looking to minimize COVID's impact.

All you need to do is look at the CDC excess deaths graph: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

A lot more people have died than usual over the last 2 years. Strangely, the shape of the excess death curves just happen to pretty much exactly follow the shape of the known waves of COVID, and of the attributed death due to COVID as shown by Worldometers. 

If you want to somehow handwave that those people died from something other than COVID, then it's on you to explain why we have so many excess deaths that are somehow dying "with" COVID. 

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17379 on: February 14, 2022, 12:48:30 PM »
Eh, I think the whole "dying from COVID" vs "dying with COVID" is a complete sleight of hand. And strangely, the only people who EVER bring that up are the people already looking to minimize COVID's impact.

All you need to do is look at the CDC excess deaths graph: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

A lot more people have died than usual over the last 2 years. Strangely, the shape of the excess death curves just happen to pretty much exactly follow the shape of the known waves of COVID, and of the attributed death due to COVID as shown by Worldometers.

If you want to somehow handwave that those people died from something other than COVID, then it's on you to explain why we have so many excess deaths that are somehow dying "with" COVID.
thats a fair point

is there a way to know excess deaths for the latest omicron run

I would compare the data to precovid 2019 etc for comparative purposes
« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 01:08:38 PM by longhorn320 »
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17380 on: February 14, 2022, 01:06:29 PM »
Maybe, but I haven't seen that in other state or country data.

Could also be an aberration due to reporting days. Many states aren't reporting 7 days a week now, so I've seen some lag in Worldometers data as new reports come on and they have to backfill for those states.
Yup it could certainly be a reporting lag. As all of this has worn on, I definitely think the urgency in gathering reporting data has diminished.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17381 on: February 14, 2022, 03:00:15 PM »
Yup it could certainly be a reporting lag. As all of this has worn on, I definitely think the urgency in gathering reporting data has diminished.
Yeah, this was from mid-January:



Less than half the states report 7 days a week... Most report every weekday, and some even less frequently than that. 

Of course, TX is listed as reporting all 7 days... Do you know if all the individual TX counties report every day? 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17382 on: February 14, 2022, 03:03:39 PM »
thats a fair point

is there a way to know excess deaths for the latest omicron run

I would compare the data to precovid 2019 etc for comparative purposes
The CDC generally has a significant lag for their reports, because it's based on actual coroner's official cause of death as reported up through government databases, and those are not typically as up to date as places like Worldometers. Given that it's individual states, counties, and perhaps even individual city coroners, reporting isn't the most timely. Even then, the latest data they currently show is the week ending Jan 29, so >2 weeks ago. 

So we really won't have clear data from the Omicron wave for probably another month, as all the numbers come in. 

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17383 on: February 14, 2022, 03:14:20 PM »
Yeah, this was from mid-January:



Less than half the states report 7 days a week... Most report every weekday, and some even less frequently than that.

Of course, TX is listed as reporting all 7 days... Do you know if all the individual TX counties report every day?

No idea on other counties.  Ours reports daily.

bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17384 on: February 14, 2022, 03:19:03 PM »
Eh, I think the whole "dying from COVID" vs "dying with COVID" is a complete sleight of hand. And strangely, the only people who EVER bring that up are the people already looking to minimize COVID's impact.

All you need to do is look at the CDC excess deaths graph: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

A lot more people have died than usual over the last 2 years. Strangely, the shape of the excess death curves just happen to pretty much exactly follow the shape of the known waves of COVID, and of the attributed death due to COVID as shown by Worldometers.

If you want to somehow handwave that those people died from something other than COVID, then it's on you to explain why we have so many excess deaths that are somehow dying "with" COVID.
I wouldn’t say “complete” but I think it’s often a broad brush, in the same vein as comorbidities.

I had a relative who would’ve had the comorbidity of “heart failure.” She had heart failure from when I was age 4 to 24.

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17385 on: February 14, 2022, 03:43:13 PM »
The CDC generally has a significant lag for their reports, because it's based on actual coroner's official cause of death as reported up through government databases, and those are not typically as up to date as places like Worldometers. Given that it's individual states, counties, and perhaps even individual city coroners, reporting isn't the most timely. Even then, the latest data they currently show is the week ending Jan 29, so >2 weeks ago.

So we really won't have clear data from the Omicron wave for probably another month, as all the numbers come in.
got it

I'll be very interested to see how excessive deaths compare to the omicron death count

They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17386 on: February 14, 2022, 04:26:32 PM »
I wouldn’t say “complete” but I think it’s often a broad brush, in the same vein as comorbidities.

I had a relative who would’ve had the comorbidity of “heart failure.” She had heart failure from when I was age 4 to 24.
Right.

My mom has significant health issues. I believe she's living with the condition called "heart failure". Which always seems strange, because to us laymen, "heart failure" generally means you're dead. My dad's morbidly obese. Maybe he should stop eating fettucine alfredo three times a week, but it's not exactly my place to tell him what to do. 

They're both vaxxed now, which is good. But prior to the vax, I've stated here that due to comorbidities, COVID would probably kill at least one of them if they both got it. 

Either of them could go at any time. My mom had an issue last fall that was touch and go for a while (including time in the ICU), but not COVID related. Either of them could have a heart attack at any moment. 

But if one of them got symptomatic COVID and then died of a heart attack while infected with COVID, I'd pretty much call that a COVID death. Because even though they're comorbidities, it would most likely be the virus that turned it from a chronic to an acute situation. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #17387 on: February 14, 2022, 05:18:31 PM »
Heart failure is a condition that develops when your heart doesn't pump enough blood for your body's needs. This can happen if your heart can't fill up with enough blood. It can also happen when your heart is too weak to pump properly. The term "heart failure" does not mean that your heart has stopped.


I found this quickly, and was surprised.  I had heart failure last year, in effect.  That was really awful, but quickly corrected 100%.


 

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