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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15190 on: August 24, 2021, 01:07:52 PM »
Don't believe everything you read about Florida Covid. Of course it's being made to look bad here...
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15191 on: August 24, 2021, 01:34:42 PM »
Is it bad that now that we have widely available vaccination [in this country, at least] that I really don't give a crap about the numbers in each state?

While breakthrough infections are possible, and serious breakthrough infections are possible but extremely rare, the bulk of the people affected chose not to protect themselves with the vaccine. I feel bad for them individually, as I don't want to see anyone in the ICU, or on a vent, or die. But the aggregate numbers just don't make an impact on me any longer...
Vaccinated health-care workers are getting sick putting in long hours in ERs and ICUs.  In Tulsa, there's a 3-year-old girl fighting for her life in an ICU because her mother--an ER nurse--got an asymptomatic breakthrough COVID infection and brought it home.
The refuseniks aren't just killing themselves, they're killing others.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15192 on: August 24, 2021, 01:48:42 PM »
Vaccinated health-care workers are getting sick putting in long hours in ERs and ICUs.  In Tulsa, there's a 3-year-old girl fighting for her life in an ICU because her mother--an ER nurse--got an asymptomatic breakthrough COVID infection and brought it home.
The refuseniks aren't just killing themselves, they're killing others.
That is sad.    You hear of many stories like that.
but I always wonder- how do we know the mom got it from an unvaccinated person, given we now know vaccinated people transmit it?  Readily.

I also add- long hours in ICUs have been an issue because of staff shortages. I know this to be true from personal experience at several local hospitals here in Florida before the Delta variant even reared it’s ugly head, as well as family members who work in hospitals. 

So again, I always wonder when I hear these types of stories- what is behind them.

I guess my cynicism about the media is making it hard for me to take stuff like this as necessarily accurate. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15193 on: August 24, 2021, 01:52:03 PM »
I guess my cynicism about the media is making it hard for me to take stuff like this as necessarily accurate. 
I find it important to pose these sorts of questions.  I think often reporters are under time pressure and don't vette things, and at other times they hear a story they think will "sell" and run with it carelessly.

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15194 on: August 24, 2021, 02:18:26 PM »
Here is an example. You can spin this anyway you want, my take is that he KNOWS about 1/4 of his population won't take the shots. So he's promoting another option for those people, to keep them from dying, and also for those who are elderly and vulnerable, even with being vaccinated. 

But that's now how the story is written.

DeSantis Has Tweeted About Monoclonal Treatment 30 Times in August, Vaccines Just Once (msn.com)


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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15195 on: August 24, 2021, 02:31:01 PM »
Here is an example. You can spin this anyway you want, my take is that he KNOWS about 1/4 of his population won't take the shots. So he's promoting another option for those people, to keep them from dying, and also for those who are elderly and vulnerable, even with being vaccinated.

But that's now how the story is written.

DeSantis Has Tweeted About Monoclonal Treatment 30 Times in August, Vaccines Just Once (msn.com)



Perfect example.  Every time I see him on local news he is begging people to get vaccinated.  Virtually every time I turn my head I hit the end of my nose on a place where you can get vaccinated without an appointment. It’s everywhere!   

But there is a narrative to drive home- so that’s not befitting of it.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15196 on: August 24, 2021, 03:09:43 PM »
That is sad.    You hear of many stories like that.
but I always wonder- how do we know the mom got it from an unvaccinated person, given we now know vaccinated people transmit it?  Readily.

I also add- long hours in ICUs have been an issue because of staff shortages. I know this to be true from personal experience at several local hospitals here in Florida before the Delta variant even reared it’s ugly head, as well as family members who work in hospitals. 

So again, I always wonder when I hear these types of stories- what is behind them.

I guess my cynicism about the media is making it hard for me to take stuff like this as necessarily accurate. 
I don't think it matters...

It's true that vaccinated people can have breakthrough infections, and they can transmit the virus. 

I also think we know that breakthrough infections in the vaccinated population are at a much lower rate than infections among the unvaccinated. 

Your risk from this virus has to do with your own protection (vaccination, other NPI) multiplied by the likelihood you're going to come in contact with someone who is infected. 

If vaccination rates go up, case rates should go down--even with Delta. Thus the right side of that equation gets smaller. You can say that's not true for an ICU nurse, but fewer unvaccinated cases will mean fewer hospitalizations / ICU visits. 

As with anything, we don't know where the mom got it. We know relative risks and relative likelihood. Those go down as vaccination rates go up. 

Cincydawg

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15198 on: August 24, 2021, 03:17:08 PM »
Apparently my wife is hearing that people (at least here) are starting to hoard, and Costco may implement limits on paper goods again.

Morons.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15199 on: August 24, 2021, 03:20:23 PM »
I don't think it matters...

It's true that vaccinated people can have breakthrough infections, and they can transmit the virus.

I also think we know that breakthrough infections in the vaccinated population are at a much lower rate than infections among the unvaccinated.

Your risk from this virus has to do with your own protection (vaccination, other NPI) multiplied by the likelihood you're going to come in contact with someone who is infected.

If vaccination rates go up, case rates should go down--even with Delta. Thus the right side of that equation gets smaller. You can say that's not true for an ICU nurse, but fewer unvaccinated cases will mean fewer hospitalizations / ICU visits.

As with anything, we don't know where the mom got it. We know relative risks and relative likelihood. Those go down as vaccination rates go up.
I was responding to the summary of CWs post.
Saying basically that the unvaccinated are killing others. 

my point being- in that scenario nobody died( and hopefully won’t), and it seems hard for someone to come to that conclusion when there is no way to know that.  Seems like hype- kind of like a lot of what the media is doing. ( all sides)
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15200 on: August 24, 2021, 03:36:12 PM »
I was responding to the summary of CWs post.
Saying basically that the unvaccinated are killing others. 

my point being- in that scenario nobody died( and hopefully won’t), and it seems hard for someone to come to that conclusion when there is no way to know that.  Seems like hype- kind of like a lot of what the media is doing. ( all sides)
Fair enough... His final statement was that the refuseniks are killing others, not just themselves. And I see your point that even those who are vaccinated might be killing others.

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle. Being vaccinated, I don't want to wear a mask any more. I don't wear it unless I'm in places where it's required (either due to regulation, such as when I traveled or was in a healthcare setting, or due to a business' voluntary policies). 

If I wore a mask, I might protect someone who is vulnerable if I have an asymptomatic breakthrough infection and I'm exposing others. And that vulnerable person may be vaccinated, or may be unable [rather than unwilling] to be vaccinated for a legitimate medical reason or (in the example CW gave) due to being too young to be eligible. 

That said, the relative risk of me doing so and hurting someone is MUCH lower than that of a refusenik. And the relative risk of me being exposed to the virus and potentially getting a breakthrough infection would be MUCH lower if the refuseniks actually got the shot too. 

Those who refuse the vaccine are IMHO a huge reason why we're in a Delta spike. Not lack of masks, not lack of social distancing, not anything else. The refuseniks.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #15201 on: August 24, 2021, 03:48:41 PM »
Fair enough... His final statement was that the refuseniks are killing others, not just themselves. And I see your point that even those who are vaccinated might be killing others.

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle. Being vaccinated, I don't want to wear a mask any more. I don't wear it unless I'm in places where it's required (either due to regulation, such as when I traveled or was in a healthcare setting, or due to a business' voluntary policies).

If I wore a mask, I might protect someone who is vulnerable if I have an asymptomatic breakthrough infection and I'm exposing others. And that vulnerable person may be vaccinated, or may be unable [rather than unwilling] to be vaccinated for a legitimate medical reason or (in the example CW gave) due to being too young to be eligible.

That said, the relative risk of me doing so and hurting someone is MUCH lower than that of a refusenik. And the relative risk of me being exposed to the virus and potentially getting a breakthrough infection would be MUCH lower if the refuseniks actually got the shot too.

Those who refuse the vaccine are IMHO a huge reason why we're in a Delta spike. Not lack of masks, not lack of social distancing, not anything else. The refuseniks.
A given. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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utee94

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Honestbuckeye

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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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