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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
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847badgerfan · « **Reply #14798 on:** August 11, 2021, 04:50:17 PM »

Lost?

Maybe you should familiarize yourself with this document.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #14799 on:** August 11, 2021, 05:15:24 PM »

You know, I've dabbled a little in Internet Constitutional Law, and I'm pretty sure that an individual school board issuing a mask mandate during a pandemic would probably be upheld by SCOTUS...

CWSooner · « **Reply #14800 on:** August 11, 2021, 05:20:03 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 11, 2021, 02:15:52 PM

I'm pretty sure in mask optional schools, some portion will wear masks, to some degree. Some others may tell their parents they wear masks but don't. And some will wear them poorly down around their neck much of the time. There won't be a school that disallows masks.

And in mask required schools, you'll still have Johnny not wearing it properly. Karen will tell on him and the teacher will get frustrated.

My school (HS) will be mask-optional.
I'm not sure that does much good. The kids who wear masks will overwhelmingly be among the vaccinated and the kids who don't wear masks will overwhelmingly be among the unvaccinated.
The logic for masks is to protect others from the wearer. But those from whom we need protection--the unvaccinated--will also be the ones who refuse to consider the welfare of others and so won't wear masks.
The ones who need to wear masks aren't wearing them, and the ones who probably don't need to wear masks will be wearing them.
Did I say that same thing enough times, enough different ways?

CWSooner · « **Reply #14801 on:** August 11, 2021, 05:22:35 PM »

Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on August 11, 2021, 05:15:24 PM

You know, I've dabbled a little in Internet Constitutional Law, and I'm pretty sure that an individual school board issuing a mask mandate during a pandemic would probably be upheld by SCOTUS...

Not in defiance of a state law forbidding local mandates, I suspect. I'd like to see it argued, though.
Now, maybe the state law could be found unconstitutional on some grounds that I haven't considered.

utee94 · « **Reply #14802 on:** August 11, 2021, 05:27:37 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on August 11, 2021, 05:22:35 PM

Not in defiance of a state law forbidding local mandates, I suspect. I'd like to see it argued, though.
Now, maybe the state law could be found unconstitutional on some grounds that I haven't considered.

These governor executive orders are not state laws, right? They were not legislated into existence.

I've been wondering since the beginning of all this, as state governors began issuing all sorts of executive orders, how they compare to actual laws? How enforceable are they compared to laws? How well would they hold up under judicial scrutiny compared to actual laws?

I have no idea, no answers at all. I've just been curious as to their nature and how they compare to laws that have been legislated into existence.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #14803 on:** August 11, 2021, 05:30:29 PM »

An executive order generally is an order by the head dude to people who work for him. There are exceptions, and they tend to be dubious for various reasons, often they are nonbinding, like Biden's EO about 50% EVs by 2030, it has zero force of law or anything else.

They have evolved often into a kind of public announcement of an aspiration.

The "public health exception" is a pretty broad and wide window into a lot of stuff though, it's not well adjudicated.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #14804 on:** August 11, 2021, 05:43:50 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on August 11, 2021, 05:22:35 PM

Not in defiance of a state law forbidding local mandates, I suspect. I'd like to see it argued, though.
Now, maybe the state law could be found unconstitutional on some grounds that I haven't considered.

That is true, and it would be interesting. Although if it's a Governor's executive order rather than a state law, it may be treated differently.

But Badge's argument was this:

Quote

There should be no mandates at all. If a parent wants their child to wear one, then do it. If not, then don't.

Which is what Florida is saying. The issue is school districts making mandates. They should not, and Florida is trying to stop that.

He's saying that local school boards shouldn't be allowed to put mask mandates in place, and his justification for that to OAM was the Constitution.

In that case his a priori argument must be that mask mandates enacted by local school boards are unconstitutional, and that Florida is adding an additional prohibition.

There may be an argument that local school boards cannot Constitutionally disobey state law or Governor's EO on this matter, but I don't think you can make an argument that absent a state law or EO that a mask mandate is not Constitutional.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #14805 on:** August 11, 2021, 05:48:39 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 11, 2021, 04:35:07 PM

This might be the most backwards-assed thing I've ever read.
You're lost.

He is right on. You mad Fro?

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #14806 on:** August 11, 2021, 05:53:05 PM »

Good place to insert the CDC Moratorium on evictions.

Law? No. Constitutional? No- already determined.

CWSooner · « **Reply #14807 on:** August 11, 2021, 06:22:05 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 05:27:37 PM

These governor executive orders are not state laws, right? They were not legislated into existence.

I've been wondering since the beginning of all this, as state governors began issuing all sorts of executive orders, how they compare to actual laws? How enforceable are they compared to laws? How well would they hold up under judicial scrutiny compared to actual laws?

I have no idea, no answers at all. I've just been curious as to their nature and how they compare to laws that have been legislated into existence.

Ah, I thought that your situation was like ours in this race to the bottom. Our legislature passed a law and our governor signed it. Nobody may require masks, nobody may require masking. I don't know if it's explicit in the statute, but it's at least being interpreted to mean that no government agency (including public schools) may even inquire into anyone's vaccination status. Which vastly complicates contact-tracing.

utee94 · « **Reply #14808 on:** August 11, 2021, 06:42:47 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on August 11, 2021, 06:22:05 PM

Ah, I thought that your situation was like ours in this race to the bottom. Our legislature passed a law and our governor signed it. Nobody may require masks, nobody may require masking. I don't know if it's explicit in the statute, but it's at least being interpreted to mean that no government agency (including public schools) may even inquire into anyone's vaccination status. Which vastly complicates contact-tracing.

Ah, I see the confusion. No, for us it's just an EO from the office of the governor.

The major urban school districts are openly defying it. San Antonio sought a court injunction against the EO and was granted that. But Austin, Dallas, and Houston, are just stating their policies which are in direct contradiction to the governor's EO, and daring the state to sue them.

Unlike our good friend Gigem, I don't believe for a second that the Texas governor is going to challenge them openly, because the majority of people in those cities are in support of the mask mandates, and he's up for reelection next year.

CWSooner · « **Reply #14809 on:** August 11, 2021, 06:43:47 PM »

FWIW . . .

CDC urges COVID vaccines during pregnancy as delta surges
By LINDSEY TANNER and MIKE STOBBE, AP Medical Writers
Aug 11, 2021 Updated 5 hrs ago

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention urged all pregnant women Wednesday to get the COVID-19 vaccine as hospitals in hot spots around the U.S. see disturbing numbers of unvaccinated mothers-to-be seriously ill with the virus.

Expectant women run a higher higher risk of severe illness and pregnancy complications from the coronavirus, including perhaps miscarriages and stillbirths. But their vaccination rates are low, with only about 23% having received at least one dose, according to CDC data.

''The vaccines are safe and effective, and it has never been more urgent to increase vaccinations as we face the highly transmissible delta variant and see severe outcomes from COVID-19 among unvaccinated pregnant people,'' CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said in a statement.

The delta variant has driven COVID-19 cases in the U.S. back up to more than 100,000 a day. And while officials warn of a coming jump in hospitalizations and deaths, there are signs that some people who were previously reluctant have signed up for a vaccine.

The updated guidance comes after a CDC analysis of new safety data on 2,500 women showed no increased risks of miscarriage for those who received at least one dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine before 20 weeks of pregnancy. The analysis found a miscarriage rate of around 13%, within the normal range.

The CDC's advice echoes recent recommendations from top obstetrician groups. The agency had previously encouraged pregnant women to consider vaccination but had stopped short of a full recommendation. The new advice also applies to nursing mothers and women planning to get pregnant.

Although pregnant women were not included in studies that led to authorization of COVID-19 vaccines, experts say real-world experience in tens of thousands of women shows that the shots are safe for them and that when given during pregnancy may offer some protection to newborns.

The new guidance comes amid a surge in COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths in the U.S., driven by the highly contagious delta variant.

In other news, my wife just saw on CBS News that there are tent hospitals in Houston.

Gigem · « **Reply #14810 on:** August 11, 2021, 06:48:50 PM »

This went circular awhile back.

Let me know when you’ve figured it all out. <——sarcasm

CWSooner · « **Reply #14811 on:** August 11, 2021, 06:52:42 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 06:42:47 PM

Ah, I see the confusion. No, for us it's just an EO from the office of the governor.

The major urban school districts are openly defying it. San Antonio sought a court injunction against the EO and was granted that. But Austin, Dallas, and Houston, are just stating their policies which are in direct contradiction to the governor's EO, and daring the state to sue them.

Unlike our good friend Gigem, I don't believe for a second that the Texas governor is going to challenge them openly, because the majority of people in those cities are in support of the mask mandates, and he's up for reelection next year.

I agree that Abbott is unlikely to challenge them. I'm guessing that his action was never about actually forcing cities to adopt policies that they don't agree with. It was about being seen to have done his best to protect good, honest, Texas Patriots from evildoers who would make them wear masks.
We're having large numbers of people in Tulsa having to postpone elective surgeries. That's a hidden cost to not getting the virus under control.

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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

847badgerfan

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

betarhoalphadelta

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

CWSooner

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CWSooner

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utee94

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Cincydawg

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betarhoalphadelta

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Honestbuckeye

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Honestbuckeye

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CWSooner

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utee94

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CWSooner

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Gigem

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CWSooner

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