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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
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longhorn320 · « **Reply #14756 on:** August 11, 2021, 10:13:54 AM »

Quote from: FearlessF on August 11, 2021, 09:06:16 AM

well, people that get vaccinated are getting sick and probably dying
school aged kids are getting sick more from the delta variant
the unanswered question is how many cracked eggs is a few? how good was the omelet?

very few who get vaccinated are getting the virus and way fewer still actually die

the occurrence of school children getting sick is also very low

children as a whole dont get nor spread this virus but teachers can

utee94 · « **Reply #14757 on:** August 11, 2021, 10:22:44 AM »

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 11, 2021, 10:13:54 AM

very few who get vaccinated are getting the virus and way fewer still actually die

the occurrence of school children getting sick is also very low

children as a whole dont get nor spread this virus but teachers can

Well sort of. They can get and spread the virus amongst themselves, but the vast majority are not actually getting sick from it. And there is very little evidence of child-to-teacher transmission. The viral loads just don't support the transmission to adults for the most part.

My 13yo daughter had it sometime in the Spring and never knew she had it. We didn't know until we had her tested for antibodies, prior to getting the vaccine. She worked very closely with her friend group during that time, none of whom ever exhibited symptoms either. I don't know whether or not any of them ever developed antibodies, but none of their teachers got sick during that time period, so there was no child-to-adult spread.

Older high school kids are a little different. Consequently, they should be vaccinated.

utee94 · « **Reply #14758 on:** August 11, 2021, 10:28:31 AM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 11, 2021, 06:35:58 AM

There should be no mandates at all. If a parent wants their child to wear one, then do it. If not, then don't.

Which is what Florida is saying. The issue is school districts making mandates. They should not, and Florida is trying to stop that.

I disagree. State bans represent government overreach. I'm never on board for that.

Local governments and school boards should be making these decisions. It's what they are elected to do-- represent their direct constituency. If their constituencies disagree with local policy, they can take action against it in the form of protests, lawsuits, civil disobedience, removal of those representatives from office, or moving to a location that better suits their ideology. The one thing constituents absolutely SHOULD do, is hold their elected representatives accountable.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #14759 on:** August 11, 2021, 10:41:38 AM »

A governor has a constituency too.

A state ban on mandates is virtually passing the power TO THE constituency. They get to decide.

Maybe overreaching. But a statewide mandate requiring vaccines or masks would then, by definition, be overreaching.

At the local level, once a decision is made- it literally goes into affect immediately and the power to protest or replace those representatives comes much later, and has no bearing on the immediate decision and therefore is fruitless in the immediate term. Additionally, it has become very evident that local representatives in school districts, on school boards, and local governments, do not often care what the majority of their constituents think.

utee94 · « **Reply #14760 on:** August 11, 2021, 10:47:59 AM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 11, 2021, 10:41:38 AM

A governor has a constituency too.

A state ban on mandates is virtually passing the power TO THE constituency. They get to decide.

Maybe overreaching. But a statewide mandate requiring vaccines or masks would then, by definition, be overreaching.

At the local level, once a decision is made- it literally goes into affect immediately and the power to protest or replace those representatives comes much later, and has no bearing on the immediate decision and therefore is fruitless in the immediate term. Additionally, it has become very evident that local representatives in school districts, on school boards, and local governments, do not often care what the majority of their constituents think.

Bulljive. There's no local decision left, if a state governor overreaches and announces a statewide ban. It's the complete opposite.

And of course I agree that a statewide mandate requiring masks or vaccines is also an overreach, just as a Federal one would be an overreach.

Local authorities must make these decisions for their communities. The governor in Austin is poorly equipped to make unilateral decisions for people in El Paso.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #14761 on:** August 11, 2021, 10:52:41 AM »

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 10:47:59 AM

Bulljive. There's no local decision left, if a state governor overreaches and announces a statewide ban. It's the complete opposite.

And of course I agree that a statewide mandate requiring masks or vaccines is also an overreach, just as a Federal one would be an overreach.

Local authorities must make these decisions for their communities. The governor in Austin is poorly equipped to make unilateral decisions for people in El Paso.

Respectfully- we will just disagree.

The Governor in Austin just admitted to being poorly equipped to make unilateral decision for people in El Paso. So, he handed that over to them, and not to local government.

utee94 · « **Reply #14762 on:** August 11, 2021, 10:55:30 AM »

Regardless, the fact remains that the Texas state governor has announced a ban on mask mandates, and the local school districts in all of the major urban areas are directly disobeying. They are daring the state government to take them to court. It will be very difficult for the state to engage in legal battles against all of the major cities, so I suspect it won't go anywhere.

As lh320 pointed out, from a scientific experimental standpoint, we're about to gather some interesting and relevant data, since we'll have very large test groups as well as very large control groups. By December, we're definitely going to know how much, or how little, masks help with reduction in infection of spread, among school children.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #14763 on:** August 11, 2021, 11:02:46 AM »

My guess is the data would be very noisy.

And inconclusive.

Especially with kids.

utee94 · « **Reply #14764 on:** August 11, 2021, 11:07:12 AM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 11, 2021, 11:02:46 AM

My guess is the data would be very noisy.

And inconclusive.

Especially with kids.

I'm not so sure.

If masking is incredibly effective then the outcomes should be very different. In which case I don't suspect noise will interfere with conclusions.

If the outcomes aren't dramatically different, then that will also tell us quite a bit.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #14765 on:** August 11, 2021, 11:16:56 AM »

I have not seen anything to suggest masks are incredibly effective, they aren't, they may be modestly effective in crowds. The difference may be 10%-20% at best, from what I can glean, but with exponents, 10% is important. Other factors like location location and the other thing probably swamp the mask signal.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #14766 on:** August 11, 2021, 11:18:57 AM »

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 10:47:59 AM

Bulljive. There's no local decision left, if a state governor overreaches and announces a statewide ban. It's the complete opposite.

And of course I agree that a statewide mandate requiring masks or vaccines is also an overreach, just as a Federal one would be an overreach.

Local authorities must make these decisions for their communities. The governor in Austin is poorly equipped to make unilateral decisions for people in El Paso.

Yes there is a local decision left.

The PARENTS get to choose. They elect the school board, who chooses school leadership. It is up to the parents - as it should be.

(Local businesses also get to choose, but that's a different topic.)

Bottom line, Florida has not banned masks. It has only banned local mandates.

utee94 · « **Reply #14767 on:** August 11, 2021, 11:23:14 AM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on August 11, 2021, 11:16:56 AM

I have not seen anything to suggest masks are incredibly effective, they aren't, they may be modestly effective in crowds. The difference may be 10%-20% at best, from what I can glean, but with exponents, 10% is important. Other factors like location location and the other thing probably swamp the mask signal.

I suspect this will be the case. Which is precisely why I believe it to be an interesting scientific experiment.

And then we can stop having the mask debates.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #14768 on:** August 11, 2021, 12:52:55 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 10, 2021, 07:44:26 PM

correct me

better men than I have tried

FearlessF · « **Reply #14769 on:** August 11, 2021, 01:10:10 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on August 11, 2021, 11:23:14 AM

I suspect this will be the case. Which is precisely why I believe it to be an interesting scientific experiment.

And then we can stop having the mask debates.

didn't we have this scientific experience last year with schools?

what makes you think folks will actually collect this data this year with any accuracy and consistency?
and then put it together properly to draw a conclusion

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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

longhorn320

Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

utee94

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utee94

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Honestbuckeye

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utee94

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Honestbuckeye

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utee94

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Cincydawg

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utee94

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Cincydawg

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847badgerfan

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utee94

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MrNubbz

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FearlessF

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