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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5348 on: June 17, 2020, 01:34:46 PM »
I bet you a dollar 3m of distancing is better than 2......
Probably, but it might not be statistically significant enough to show up in any data, as it's a matter of exponential decay, and at that point you're well into the tail of the distribution.

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5349 on: June 17, 2020, 01:37:30 PM »
Huge spike in Texas came partially from two counties reporting a large quantity of previously unreported cases. 

"The reported cases for June 16 include 2,622 new cases and 1,476 cases that were previously diagnosed among Texas Department of Criminal Justice inmates but that had not been reported by local health departments (887 from Anderson County and 589 from Brazoria County)." [source]

However, even 2622 would be a record and that means that previous days did NOT include some large spikes that should have been there.

I figured it was data correction to have a spike like that.  

Right now I am concerned, but not terribly worried -- yet.  Texas and a few other places are showing consistent acceleration of the infection.  Rough guess -- I'm seeing increases of about 10% every week.  2,500 daily this week, probably 2750 daily next week, then in the 3000's in July, 5000s in August.   All of which Texas can probably handle, but it does pose a risk for football.

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5350 on: June 17, 2020, 01:45:26 PM »
I figured it was data correction to have a spike like that. 

Right now I am concerned, but not terribly worried -- yet.  Texas and a few other places are showing consistent acceleration of the infection.  Rough guess -- I'm seeing increases of about 10% every week.  2,500 daily this week, probably 2750 daily next week, then in the 3000's in July, 5000s in August.  All of which Texas can probably handle, but it does pose a risk for football.

% utilization of hospitals and ICU is the metric that matters.  It's also the one that probably the most difficult to obtain, because there's not really a baseline for how much of an ICU could/should be dedicated to COVID.  Also, temporary ICUs can be stood up in some places, where necessary.  And finally, many hospitals have been reluctant to provide this data for various reasons, some related to security, some related to finance, and some related to simple extraneous overhead.

Regardless, in most municipalities in Texas, the authorities are concerned with the trend, but state that we still have reasonable capacity.  I guess we'll see, and I'm certainly hoping that the current trends flatten out.

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5351 on: June 17, 2020, 01:51:02 PM »
Below is a link to a Lancet meta-analysis of studies regarding masks, social distancing, and eye protection. Bottom line: if exposed to someone with the virus, your likelihood of becoming infected sans mask use was 17.4%. With a normal fabric mask, the probability drops down to 3.1%. The effect is even more pronounced with an N95 mask.

I only skimmed to study, it's pretty heavy going, but there are others things it found, such as eye protection being a big help, and the fact that social distancing of 1 meter is better than nothing, 2 meters is better but doesn't offer full protection.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS01
40-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext



I'm all-in for face masks, I now have several bad-ass Longhorn masks that make me look even more awesome than I already do. :)

But this right here confuses and concerns me:


Quote
Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection (n=2647; aOR 0·15, 95% CI 0·07 to 0·34, RD −14·3%, −15·9 to −10·7; low certainty), with stronger associations with N95 or similar respirators compared with disposable surgical masks or similar (eg, reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks; pinteraction=0·090; posterior probability >95%, low certainty). 

I'm not seeing ANYONE using a 12-16 layer cotton mask, if that even means what I think it means?  

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5352 on: June 17, 2020, 01:54:50 PM »
I think the mask is the key. In my first 4-5 weeks in Florida, everyone was wearing them. That started to die off, to the point I no longer felt comfortable in a store. 

Combine the mask fatigue with massive protests, and there you have it.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5353 on: June 17, 2020, 01:57:49 PM »
Texas cases started its increase a few days after the protests started

California case numbers took a jump up a few days after the protests started

not saying the protests is the only cause of increased cases only that it should be considered as one of the causes
Texas is a strange case. It looks like Texas started its statewide rise right on May 26. Yes, that was also the day after Floyd was killed. But given the amount of time it took protests to start spreading, and then if you build in lag time, there is no way that the cases could have spread quickly enough to be coincident with the May 26 start of the rise.

And I agree--protests SHOULD be considered one of the causes of rise. Some people did take precautions (masks & distancing) but others did not. To think that many people in close proximity had zero spread is just not sensible.

So what happened on May 26th
Day was picked because it was the first "record" day since May 9. California also had 4 record days between Apr 20 and May 9. 

If you look at the CA 7-day moving average, it was up until about Apr 8, paused/declined slightly until Apr 19, was up again to about May 9, paused/declined slightly until May 16, and then started its current trend up. Between May 16 (a Saturday), every single day except May 17-18 (Sun/Mon which are typical "low" days) was higher than May 16. That even includes the following Sun/Mon, May 23-24. 

So California's current rise started well before May 26--that was just the day that had passed the previous record of May 9. 

I won't speak for California, or even the rest of Texas, but in Austin I don't believe your statement is necessarily true.  Large protests started 3 weeks ago, the largest increasing age group of new cases in Austin is 20-29, and this is what the case trend looks like in Austin:

[img width=500 height=202.975]https://i.ibb.co/H439vMm/Austin-Covid.png[/img]

https://austin.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/39e4f8d4acb0433baae6d15a931fa984

That's not smooth and steady, by any definition.

Whereas, 3 weeks after reopening on May 1, all trends in Austin metro were actually going down, and continued trending down for 3 weeks-- until this most recent uptick began within the last 10 days.

There's no way to know for sure-- contract tracers are not allowed to ask if the positive test cases attended any protests-- but I believe there's at least some reasonable evidence, in Austin, that the protests are having an effect on the current increasing case counts.
Again, I think the protests definitely have an effect. I don't know specific to Austin whether the protests involved people who were actually taking precautions (masks/distancing) or not. I'm not trying to discount the idea that protests cause spread. 

I do think even beyond the protests (as that Florida link I provided above) may show, the younger folks tend to be trying to return to "normal" far more than anyone else. In addition to protests, if they're also hitting the bars, having parties, etc, that will increase the numbers too. 

I support reopening--but I think for too many people "reopening" means "back to normal", and that's going to be a problem. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5354 on: June 17, 2020, 02:04:17 PM »

I support reopening--but I think for too many people "reopening" means "back to normal", and that's going to be a problem.
This is where I'm at. Just because we are opening back up (we have to - most people NEED to work) doesn't mean we're out of the woods.

People need to keep wearing masks and keeping distance. It's not easy, but it's necessary.
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Riffraft

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5355 on: June 17, 2020, 02:30:49 PM »
I tell people here that Ducey is trying to be Trump Jr and run for prez in 2024 if Trump is re-elected.  They always look like they smell a nasty fart when I say it. 

Ducey is a Trump stooge, trying to get onto Trump's radar. 
Except that he didn't, He was a good two weeks after Trump made his appeal for the states to open before Arizona started opening up. 

I know this because I actually wrote to him to complain that he wasn't starting to open things up, in spite of the statistics that I have seen that says COVID-19 isn't any more dangerous than the flu unless you are at an extreme age or have a serious underlying condition. 

MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5356 on: June 17, 2020, 02:41:14 PM »
The food pantry we volunteer at has went from a high of 200 + families has circled back to the old numbers of around 60-75 families.Maybe from folks going back to work.We were actually looking for somewhere to take the extra produce and dairy that would spoil so we took it to a nearby trailer park to seniors who can't get out much many too proud to sign up
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5357 on: June 17, 2020, 02:46:32 PM »
A thing I see on FB is folks politicizing this by almost celebrating when a state with a governor they dislike is doing poorly.  Some were almost giddy when NY was posting terrible numbers, and others seem the same when they focus on AZ or FL or TX.  They like to say "SEE!!!  I TOLD you this would happen because that governor is a D/R!!!!"

And of course they only point to the states that are experiencing whatever fits their world view and ignore the rest.

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5358 on: June 17, 2020, 03:16:40 PM »
I refer to "those" folks as asshats
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5359 on: June 17, 2020, 03:30:48 PM »
I ignore all idiots that post political crap of ANY persuasion on Facebook, makes life very pleasant.

MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5360 on: June 17, 2020, 03:35:37 PM »
I ignore facebook,they wouldn't take my picture anyway
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #5361 on: June 17, 2020, 06:06:49 PM »
From the NYT.

Europe vs. the U.S.

The coronavirus began to ravage Europe weeks before the United States. At the peak, in early April, more than 3,000 people in Italy, Spain and the rest of Western Europe were dying each day — a substantially higher toll than in the U.S.
Over the past two months, however, Europe has succeeded at crushing the virus, and the U.S. has not. Just look at this chart (which compares the U.S. to a contiguous 16-country region of Western Europe with a nearly identical population):
By The New York Times | Source: Johns Hopkins University
European countries have used a combination of lockdowns, public health guidance, tests and contact tracing to beat back the virus. Large parts of Europe have begun reopening, including schools, so far without sparking major new outbreaks.
The U.S. response has been more scattered and less successful. “Government efforts to inform the public about the pandemic have been a colossal failure, which means that most people are hearing mixed and muffled messages about what to do,” Jonathan Bernstein, a political scientist and Bloomberg Opinion columnist, wrote this week. “It’s not surprising that a lot of folks are believing misinformation as a result, and others are just throwing up their hands.”
Donald McNeil, who covers infectious diseases for The Times, points out that the U.S. states hit hardest and earliest by the virus, like New York and New Jersey, have followed a path similar to Europe’s: a terrible peak, followed by an aggressive response and falling caseloads.
“But I think a lot of states reopened pretty willy-nilly after pressure from small businesses and citizens who were out of work and frustrated by lockdown and who had not seen the virus hit anyone they knew yet,” Donald told us. “A lot of those states — Texas, Florida, Arizona, North and South Carolina, etc. — are now seeing cases and hospitalizations rise.”
On Tuesday, Arizona, Florida and Texas all reported their largest one-day increases in new cases.
The combined death count in those 16 European countries (about 121,000) remains higher than in the U.S. (about 117,000). But at the current pace, the U.S. toll will be higher by next week.

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