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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2478 on: April 22, 2020, 11:33:40 AM »


Coal country would be an awesome place to live if you were independently wealthy, and didn't have to figure out a way to earn a living.

The Chicago ghettos, not so much. 
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2479 on: April 22, 2020, 11:45:27 AM »
And that is a very valid point.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2480 on: April 22, 2020, 12:22:46 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 11:25:39 AM
The point is that it's not easy to invoke changes upon people who a) don't know anything different, b) don't want to know, or c) refuse assistance in changing.
They're all battling to be the last sap with black-lung in the last coal mine.



That was hardly the context of the post in question
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 01:06:11 PM by MrNubbz »
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FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2481 on: April 22, 2020, 12:36:34 PM »
so, how's the virus going in coal miner's daughter's country?

more deaths as a percentage because of the lung problems?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 01:31:14 PM by FearlessF »
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SFBadger96

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2482 on: April 22, 2020, 12:43:37 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 09:25:48 AM
I've got a few neighborhoods in Chicago that could use a speech on this.


See the source image
Sorry, but I can't see this map without thinking, "wow, it's almost as if someone 'red-lined' some neighborhoods there--oh wait; that's exactly what happened."

In both coal country and Chicago (and a lot of other places), the story is a lot more complex than "those lazy poor people."
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2483 on: April 22, 2020, 12:46:42 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on April 22, 2020, 12:22:46 PM
That was hardly the context of the post in question
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 22, 2020, 02:46:18 AM

It's not fair to blame them for their narrow scope of possibility.  It is fair to blame them for ignoring it.  The moment a person becomes aware of their plight, it's on them to combat it.
You sure? I didn't say anything about the context of the topic at hand. The above post applies to my point: Change is hard.

My point stands.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2484 on: April 22, 2020, 12:47:17 PM »
Quote from: SFBadger96 on April 22, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Sorry, but I can't see this map without thinking, "wow, it's almost as if someone 'red-lined' some neighborhoods there--oh wait; that's exactly what happened."

In both coal country and Chicago (and a lot of other places), the story is a lot more complex than "those lazy poor people."
Correct. Change is hard.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2485 on: April 22, 2020, 01:11:05 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2020, 12:46:42 PM
You sure? I didn't say anything about the context of the topic at hand. The above post applies to my point: Change is hard.

My point stands.

So does mine.That is not the quote CWS and myself responded to
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Kris60

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2486 on: April 22, 2020, 01:42:49 PM »
OAM’s biggest problem is that he can’t fathom people have a different opinion than he does. If he deems coal mining a “shitty job” then he thinks it is universally regarded that way.

Every comment he makes regarding the subject is based on the belief that no one would want to do that for a living and the people doing it are incapable of change and just accept their plight.

Coal mining is hard and dangerous work and it isn’t something that OAM or me or maybe anyone else on here would want to, but some people do for the trade off of good money.

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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2487 on: April 22, 2020, 01:52:10 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on April 22, 2020, 11:23:17 AM

C'mon, Afro!  It's OK to shit on coal miners because they are white, but not OK to shit on inner-city residents because they are disproportionately black?
I don't condone OAM's tone, as I think it's not productive, but I think some of the shared dynamics are interesting. 

Shoot, I'm sure there was a long time when those self-same coal miners would shit on those inner-city residents for many of the social problems that now are hitting coal country. 

The gaps are interesting because obviously the problems are newer to coal country and the intransigence is a bit different. One group once had something, and feels it deserves that still, the other for the most part has not had that stability within several generations. And the thing they're trying to bring back is almost assuredly not coming back, which means demanding it is a different kind of self-dilusion (not that the inner cities don't have their own brand of that, or even white-collar work for that matter).

On gap that I think is most notable is a sort of socialization when it comes to certain social structures and the work/payoff model. Some of that might reference the idea of savings (i.e., if you grow up super poor, you often treat money as something to be spent as compared to something to be rationed in certain ways). And some is about establishing a careerist structure. Our former miners know a life with that career as a guide, whereas many inner-city residents often do not. In theory they've been raised to see a bigger picture, but couldn't see a bigger picture still. Uncharitably one could blame it on intransigence, more charitably on a natural desire to hold onto the shell of once was. 

(There's also an interesting question of if it's easier to leave rural mining country or the inner city. History has seen more departures from the former to the latter, but it's still complicated)

I suppose one's gap in empathy might revolve around the sense our group of coal miners should be, in theory, in better shape to pivot.
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FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2488 on: April 22, 2020, 01:56:36 PM »
Quote from: Kris60 on April 22, 2020, 01:42:49 PM
OAM’s biggest problem is that he can’t fathom people have a different opinion than he does. If he deems coal mining a “shitty job” then he thinks it is universally regarded that way.

Every comment he makes regarding the subject is based on the belief that no one would want to do that for a living and the people doing it are incapable of change and just accept their plight.

Coal mining is hard and dangerous work and it isn’t something that OAM or me or maybe anyone else on here would want to, but some people do for the trade off of good money.


I've done many crap jobs for decent money
working in a meat packing plant is just one of them
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MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2489 on: April 22, 2020, 01:59:36 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on April 22, 2020, 01:52:10 PM
Shoot, I'm sure there was a long time when those self-same coal miners would shit on those inner-city residents for many of the social problems that now are hitting coal country.
Perhaps there's always a few,the folks I knew from WV would share their last cracker with you.The only time they looked down on someone was when they were helping them up.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2490 on: April 22, 2020, 02:29:08 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on April 22, 2020, 01:59:36 PM
Perhaps there's always a few,the folks I knew from WV would share their last cracker with you.The only time they looked down on someone was when they were helping them up.
There's a snarky thing I want to write, but it would lead down the road to me getting cussed out again, so I shall refrain. 

Perhaps in the good times, I wouldn't have heard nary a word about "personal responsibility" when discussing the social plights of urban decay in large cities. I hope I would've heard a lot of empathy and talk of charity. I hope that's the case.

(What would be the closest city to WV that saw that sort of trouble? Probably Youngstown?)
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Kris60

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #2491 on: April 22, 2020, 02:42:37 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on April 22, 2020, 02:29:08 PM
There's a snarky thing I want to write, but it would lead down the road to me getting cussed out again, so I shall refrain.

Perhaps in the good times, I wouldn't have heard nary a word about "personal responsibility" when discussing the social plights of urban decay in large cities. I hope I would've heard a lot of empathy and talk of charity. I hope that's the case.

(What would be the closest city to WV that saw that sort of trouble? Probably Youngstown?)
You would have heard plenty of coal miners discussing that people in the inner city needed to take personal responsibility for their plight.  Plenty would have given them their last cracker, and plenty would have done both.
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