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Topic: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend

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Cincydawg

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Kris60

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #561 on: December 04, 2022, 07:24:16 PM »
Harbaugh is sort of like the Houston Rockets when Jordan retired.
I don’t think Michigan is winning now because Ohio St is worse. I just think Michigan is better.

FearlessF

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #562 on: December 04, 2022, 07:27:18 PM »
I think it's some of both
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #563 on: December 04, 2022, 07:34:36 PM »
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #564 on: December 04, 2022, 08:46:25 PM »
I don’t think Michigan is winning now because Ohio St is worse. I just think Michigan is better.
It's all related.......Urban is gone.  Talent difference, gameday difference.  Results different.
Just my opinion, I'm probably wrong.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 08:52:54 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #565 on: December 04, 2022, 08:47:34 PM »
I assume the Las Vegas Bowl has already sold out, but maybe I'll be able to pick up a ticket somewheres....
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #566 on: December 05, 2022, 06:46:01 AM »
I think it's some of both
It is possible that it relates more to "fit" than just talent and coaching, I don't know if that is the case here.  My impression of Ohio State is that it is more of a "finesse team" that can bury you with passing and the occasional run thrown in, with a defense best left on the sideline.  That works great against "Purdue".  Maybe Michigan has evolved into more of an SEC/Bama style of  team that just wears you down with a good OL, good RBs, good D, and in time buries you with plays over the top.  OSU has to bring safties up to stop the run and get burned eventually.

I don't know if this is the case, but it has played out this way of late.  OSU remains uber talented, but a bad match for what UM has become.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #567 on: December 05, 2022, 07:57:03 AM »
It is possible that it relates more to "fit" than just talent and coaching, I don't know if that is the case here.  My impression of Ohio State is that it is more of a "finesse team" that can bury you with passing and the occasional run thrown in, with a defense best left on the sideline.  That works great against "Purdue".  Maybe Michigan has evolved into more of an SEC/Bama style of  team that just wears you down with a good OL, good RBs, good D, and in time buries you with plays over the top.  OSU has to bring safties up to stop the run and get burned eventually.

I don't know if this is the case, but it has played out this way of late.  OSU remains uber talented, but a bad match for what UM has become.
I think if you look at the data/stats now that we have a full season you will see that your impression of Ohio State is an oversimplification if not just off.

Let’s start with Michigan. Clearly their total performance has risen to national elite status. That is not even debatable. For the second season in a row they are clearly one of the best two or three teams in the entire country. Let’s give MDOT some credit here. He has been saying for several seasons now that having the right quarterback was holding Michigan back and that has proven to be true. They now have a dangerous quarterback who can run or pass and that makes Michigan, given their excellent run game, very difficult for anyone to stop.  They have been extremely good on defense all along. Especially when it comes to playing against the run.  But let’s not forget that it took Harbaugh until his seventh season and Ann Arbor to finally get a win over Ohio State. Last year in Ann Arbor Michigan physically dominated Ohio State on both sides of the line. Even though they gave up 400 yards of passing, they won rather easily because Ohio State could not run the ball and could not stop the run.  I will add that in 2016 the game was a nailbiter and Ohio State won but that probably had to do with Ohio State having a better quarterback. 

Ohio State is so far from A finesse team that is silly to view them that way.  And their defense is quite good. They are a top 15 team and virtually every category of difference from stopping the run to stopping the pass to total points to total defense.  They have improved dramatically in all of those categories.  They do not have to “bring up their safeties” to stop the run.  You don’t get to be too 15 in both run and pass defense by doing that. Yes, they do that sometimes when they’re trying to disrupt the other team from staying on schedule, and they do that sometimes when the other team is really good at running the ball, like Michigan is. And yes occasionally they get burned with a big play by doing that.

And unfortunately for them- that strategy combined with their over emphasis on stopping Michigan’s run game led to explosive plays that all resulted in TDS. How else does a quarterback only complete 12 passes all game, and 3 go for long tDs? 

would it surprise you to know that Ohio State is a top five team in virtually every category of offense including passing and scoring as well as total offense?  They are 23rd in total rushing with just under 200 yards a game. They are not a finesse team at all but rather a team that seeks to be very balanced by moving the ball by creating run pass conflict for the Defense.

The rivalry game has long been a mental game for whatever reason. And in this year‘s game Harbaugh clearly was in Ryan days head. Ohio State flinched badly and made mistakes they had not made all year.  Dropped balls, stupid penalties, easy assignments missed, etc.  that is a credit to Harbaugh and a legitimate big criticism of Ryan Day. 

I will add that everybody talks about Michigan winning that game without their best player, but let’s be honest, how big a drop off is there from running back number 1, to back number two?

on the other side Ohio State was missing their best receiver, their top FOUR RBs from their beginning Depth Chart ( Henderson, Williams,Pryor, and Coffey). They started a guy who was playing LB until a month ago. They were also missing their best run blocking guard (Jones)and had to limit their best D tackle to 4 or 5 plays due to a busted up shoulder. ( Hall)

And yet they drove into the red zone for the potential tying score with 8 minutes left in the game despite having played badly. 

Yes- from there they gambled and tried to get the ball back, and gave up 2 long TD runs to a great RB they had limited to 2.7 yards per carry for 3 1/2 Quarters.   

you could say they choked. That would be fair and accurate. But it would also be uncharacteristic- they won every game up to this point by double digits and overcame adversity by taking control of the game. 

their defense has been way better than you’re giving them credit for and they are far more physical team than you’re giving them credit for.

How they do against Georgia, I can’t say. Georgia also has a very mobile accurate quarterback, an elite defense, and a strong running game. But my guess is win or lose, they won’t make some of the self-inflicted errors that they made against Michigan because, well it isn’t Michigan lol.


« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 08:04:05 AM by Honestbuckeye »
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Cincydawg

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #568 on: December 05, 2022, 07:59:37 AM »
You likely are more correct than I, I was pondering the "fit" aspect of a contest being as important as the talent aspect.


Kris60

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #569 on: December 05, 2022, 08:48:54 AM »
Some OSU fans who follow the program more closely might disagree but I haven’t seen any slippage from Meyer to Day.  In fact, Day has at least cut out the “WTF just happened” losses that plagued Meyer. When Day loses he loses he at least loses to better quality teams.

MrNubbz

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #570 on: December 05, 2022, 08:54:42 AM »
The rivalry game has long been a mental game for whatever reason. And in this year‘s game Harbaugh clearly was in Ryan days head. Ohio State flinched badly and made mistakes they had not made all year.  Dropped balls, stupid penalties, easy assignments missed, etc.  that is a credit to Harbaugh and a legitimate big criticism of Ryan Day. 

I will add that everybody talks about Michigan winning that game without their best player, but let’s be honest, how big a drop off is there from running back number 1, to back number two?
Good Post since there is only one ball how much better with Corum having Edwards carries would UM be considering Edwards 216 yds?That sparked the the lead then the route at the end.JS-N was the early season favorite to win the  Biletnikoff Award.Based on two number 1st rd receivers said he was better than they were.But JS-N still would not have covered for Day/Knowles lack of half time defensive adjustments.I honestly had to go back to John Cooper to see such lack of side line insight
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SuperMario

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #571 on: December 05, 2022, 09:07:51 AM »

I will add that everybody talks about Michigan winning that game without their best player, but let’s be honest, how big a drop off is there from running back number 1, to back number two?

on the other side Ohio State was missing their best receiver, their top FOUR RBs from their beginning Depth Chart ( Henderson, Williams,Pryor, and Coffey). They started a guy who was playing LB until a month ago. They were also missing their best run blocking guard (Jones)and had to limit their best D tackle to 4 or 5 plays due to a busted up shoulder. ( Hall)
I agreed with most of your post, but this part is interesting and you are down playing not having Corum. How big a drop? A Heisman candidate that is one of the best in the country being injured is always a drop off and Michigan’s running game struggling until two late game long td runs is proof of the difference. Edwards is a good RB, but Corum’s style fits this Michigan system perfectly.

Secondly, Michigan had other high end players out as well. It’s not like it was just Corum and then the Buckeyes were missing large amounts of talent with Michigan missing just their Heisman candidate: Michigan was missing their best defensive end and also their best Tight end, who likely was one of the best in the nation in Erick All.

it’s no excuse because every team faces injury during the season, but the tone of your post sounded like everyone is talking about Corum and ignoring that osu was actually missing more talent. I’m not sure that was the case and I could have misunderstood your point.

MrNubbz

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #572 on: December 05, 2022, 09:16:52 AM »
OSU was missing half the rbs to injuries but played little.Why Day went away from Xavier Johnson who had 2 carries for 24 yds or Hayden who may be the quickest and had 147 the week before is a head scratcher.It's the jimmies and the joes not the Xs and the Os
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: S.O.C. Conference Championship Weekend
« Reply #573 on: December 05, 2022, 10:52:43 AM »
I agreed with most of your post, but this part is interesting and you are down playing not having Corum. How big a drop? A Heisman candidate that is one of the best in the country being injured is always a drop off and Michigan’s running game struggling until two late game long td runs is proof of the difference. Edwards is a good RB, but Corum’s style fits this Michigan system perfectly.

Secondly, Michigan had other high end players out as well. It’s not like it was just Corum and then the Buckeyes were missing large amounts of talent with Michigan missing just their Heisman candidate: Michigan was missing their best defensive end and also their best Tight end, who likely was one of the best in the nation in Erick All.

it’s no excuse because every team faces injury during the season, but the tone of your post sounded like everyone is talking about Corum and ignoring that osu was actually missing more talent. I’m not sure that was the case and I could have misunderstood your point.
This is a good post. Erick All was a huge loss- he killed OSU last year. And add Schoonmaker. It really is a tribute to the UM coaching staff on developing and recruiting TEs. 

also- can’t disagree about Corum.  Anything less than him is a drop off. 

But the equivalent for OSU would be no Edwards or Corum or Gash or Stokes, and starting and playing Jalel Mullins for 95% of the carries.

Plus- how do you really measure the loss of Smith-Njigba?  It is a showstopper against a great defense like Michigan.  You can put a safety over the top on Harrison on every play- which they did.  Egbuka and Fleming are really good- but IMHO no receiver in the game is as good at getting open in those shell- covers schemes UM employed so well- as NJigba.  Especially in the red zone.

But my post was more of a reaction to the “ Michigan won without their best player” narrative.  Yes- they sure as hell did, and it was impressive!  On the other hand, OSU went through most of the season without 2 out of Three of their game changers.  Njigba and Trevon Henderson.

I think a lot of people forgot just how dangerous Henderson is when he is healthy and I do think he will remind people that when he does get healthy.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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