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Topic: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters

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utee94

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #98 on: August 19, 2025, 12:35:01 PM »
You are both correct.  There also is a problem with conferences doing it because the SEC is going to look at Michigan getting away with murder and not want to penalize one of their members when the B1G didn't and that general concept will perpetually and go both ways.  SEC fans will ALWAYS say that B1G teams do worse and B1G fans will ALWAYS say that SEC teams do worse. 

Now more than ever we need a competent and fast moving governing body to handle both player and program discipline. 

Twice in the last ~15 years we've had to watch while the integrity of the game was directly assaulted when a school that literally everyone knew was cheating won the NC and the NCAA sat and did nothing.  There will always be dirtbag programs like Auburn and Michigan and there will always be dirtbag coaches like Harbaugh but we need a governing body to keep them in check.  The NCAA has clearly and obviously failed and is beneath worthless. 

I included player discipline because in the NIL and portal era, schools are basically powerless to enforce discipline.  I'm going to use Texas as the example but don't get upset @utee94 , it is just for illustrative purposes.  Suppose that Manning does something REALLY bad off-campus.  Suppose, for arguments sake that it is something that all of us agree he should be suspended for.  Can Sark really suspend him?  Realistically there are at least two problems that are new in the new era:
  • If Sark suspends him, he can transfer and Texas might well end up playing against him and potentially losing to him later this season. 
  • Texas' boosters spent a LOT of cash to get Manning to be a Longhorn.  Those boosters also effectively pay Sark's salary.  They aren't going to be happy if Sark's actions torpedo a player that they spent a boatload of cash to bring to Austin so effectively, Sark's bosses aren't going to let him suspend a kid no matter what. 
The only workable solution to this is to take player discipline away from individual schools/coaches and put it in the hands of a competent governing body. 


>:(

I mean, you coulda used Sayin to make the same point. 

I'm just sayin'...

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #99 on: August 19, 2025, 12:43:23 PM »
>:(

I mean, you coulda used Sayin to make the same point.

I'm just sayin'...
LoL.  

Yeah, but I was responding to your post so I figured I'd use your school.  

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #100 on: August 19, 2025, 12:49:53 PM »
True enough.

I'm not saying it would work any better, I'm just saying I understand the appeal to try something different, to try something other than the thing that we already know doesn't work and hasn't worked for over half a century.
Yeah, I understand the appeal. But both the NCAA and the conferences have a problem--exit. 

We've talked about this in the "death of college football" thread. The Big Ten won't kick teams out, which makes me feel good as a Purdue fan. But that doesn't mean that the big boy programs of the P2 conferences along with a handful of others won't say "Sayonara" and break off to form an independent college football system. I.e. one that isn't tied to the traditional conferences, isn't tied to the NCAA, is barely even using "student-athletes" if at all, isn't subject to things like Title IX (probably by being only a loose 'pay for the brand' marketing arrangement with the school).

So instead, they let Michigan, with probably the most egregious cheating scandal I've ever heard of--even worse than point-shaving--with a stern warning and a monetary fine. Because they're terrified that if they bring down the hammer that it'll blow up their ability to regulate the sport at all. 

Drew4UTk

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #101 on: August 19, 2025, 12:51:47 PM »
As I see it and understand it, the ncaa was to keep schools from organizing outside of conferences... i.e. UM or Auburn since we're aiming at them, get slapped hard by their conferences in this fictitious example, and decide "whatever, we'll just leave the conference!"... which would trigger the conferences appealing to the ncaa to sanction any schools from scheduling the offending schools without full membership into that conference- which requires agreeing to things...  

It closes an escape hatch, in other words.  The ncaa wouldn't have control over the school, per say, but they'd have some control on who that school plays- if any- by leveling sanctions against them.  

They just grew beyond their purpose and kinda killed themselves.  The conferences haven't, but they still need some sort of binding contract with other conferences and all of the sport else there would be a lot more independent schools than there are.  The ncaa still provides that.  

FearlessF

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #102 on: August 19, 2025, 12:53:33 PM »
People are constantly lamenting how weak and toothless the NCAA is.  And they're right.

If you want serious enforcement, then I can understand Fearless' appeal to have the conference do it rather than the NCAA.  If your response to that is, "Well then, what the heck is the NCAA any good for?" well I think that's a fair question, and the answer is, not much.

But because the conference controls the distribution of hundreds of millions of dollars to its member schools, it has much stronger capability to compel compliance.
we didn't always agree so much
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #103 on: August 19, 2025, 01:00:35 PM »
we didn't always agree so much

I agree with the sentiments, absolutely.  But for the reasons pointed out since, I'm not sure it could ever make a difference.



FearlessF

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #104 on: August 19, 2025, 01:05:13 PM »
jesus, the Big shouldn't be afraid to keep it's member institutions inline for the good of the other 17 member institutions.

should the Big be afraid Michigan is going to leave the conference ????  Hell NO.

What are the Wolverines gonna do?  Go indy like Notre Dame?  that's their only choice.  They aren't joining the ACC or the SEC

butt hay, if the ADs of the other 17 member institutions aren't going to do anything about this, then it's just not that big of a deal.

IMO, the conference should vacate the conference wins and championship and then levy a hefty fine ($30 million) to be divided among the 17 others that didn't cheat.

There is absolutely NO reason this can't be done.

the NCAA has nothing to do with it and does not need to go away before this happens.  It's got nothing to do with the NCAA.  This should be a conference matter.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2025, 01:06:18 PM »
As I see it and understand it, the ncaa was to keep schools from organizing outside of conferences... i.e. UM or Auburn since we're aiming at them, get slapped hard by their conferences in this fictitious example, and decide "whatever, we'll just leave the conference!"... which would trigger the conferences appealing to the ncaa to sanction any schools from scheduling the offending schools without full membership into that conference- which requires agreeing to things... 

It closes an escape hatch, in other words.  The ncaa wouldn't have control over the school, per say, but they'd have some control on who that school plays- if any- by leveling sanctions against them. 

They just grew beyond their purpose and kinda killed themselves.  The conferences haven't, but they still need some sort of binding contract with other conferences and all of the sport else there would be a lot more independent schools than there are.  The ncaa still provides that. 
Michigan has left the B1G in the past, in response to penalties for cheating.

They came back 10 years later.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2025, 01:07:58 PM »
crawling back
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Mdot21

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2025, 01:27:44 PM »
at home as 3 TD favorites no less. yikes. good thing Ryan won that Natty- probably saved his ass.


https://twitter.com/JimboPete6/status/1956897513086365847

Mdot21

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #108 on: August 19, 2025, 01:30:14 PM »
Donovan Edwards moved on, natural to backfill with another Holocaust denier

https://twitter.com/ShehanJeyarajah/status/1957830351486693831

ELA

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #109 on: August 19, 2025, 01:37:51 PM »

https://twitter.com/ShehanJeyarajah/status/1957830351486693831

Pretty sure they fired him.  Definitely wasn't on the cover of a video game

SuperMario

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #110 on: August 19, 2025, 01:56:47 PM »

It is sad what this has done to you.  I know you.  You aren't @Mdot21 .  I'm sure you have personal integrity.  I'm sure that if this was not just Ohio State but if this was any school other than Michigan you'd be appalled at this behavior just like the rest of us - NOTE, not just Ohio State fans, EVERYONE.  
Everyone can sit there and lecture MDOT21 for name calling, but maybe start with the person that continues to arrogantly make this topic personal over and over. This is specifically the approach that destroys this board. It's one thing to disagree on this topic, it's another when the same individual starts attacking who people are because of this topic. MDOT's language and name calling harms the culture of this board, but so does allowing this approach to be accepted over and over. 

MB -you don't know a thing about me. We went to one basketball game together. That's it. You know absolutely nothing about what an irrelevant topic has done or not done to me. Collegiate sports are a minimal part of my life and my family and my business and spending my effort making people's lives better is the where my energy goes. I'm an Ignatius man. Few on this board will understand, but "Men For Others" is where i'm built and where my energy is. Exactly why I'm on here far less than I ever was because my energy is spent in areas I can make the lives of people i encounter better. Feel free to use your energy to use Cheater and try to frame people as shitty humans if they're Michigan fans. It's not a reflection of me in any regards.

Mdot21

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Re: Ridiculously lenient slap on wrist for cheaters
« Reply #111 on: August 19, 2025, 02:13:49 PM »
Everyone can sit there and lecture MDOT21 for name calling, but maybe start with the person that continues to arrogantly make this topic personal over and over. This is specifically the approach that destroys this board. It's one thing to disagree on this topic, it's another when the same individual starts attacking who people are because of this topic. MDOT's language and name calling harms the culture of this board, but so does allowing this approach to be accepted over and over.

MB -you don't know a thing about me. We went to one basketball game together. That's it. You know absolutely nothing about what an irrelevant topic has done or not done to me. Collegiate sports are a minimal part of my life and my family and my business and spending my effort making people's lives better is the where my energy goes. I'm an Ignatius man. Few on this board will understand, but "Men For Others" is where i'm built and where my energy is. Exactly why I'm on here far less than I ever was because my energy is spent in areas I can make the lives of people i encounter better. Feel free to use your energy to use Cheater and try to frame people as shitty humans if they're Michigan fans. It's not a reflection of me in any regards.
winner winner chicken dinner. this guy has literally started dozens of threads and written hundreds of thesis papers 400,000 words long on the topic at hand for YEARS (get over it already, maybe?) and throws personal insults and shots at anyone who disagrees with his opinion and thinks he's acting like a crying whining hysterical woman.

fact of the matter is his brain is broken. Michigan has broken Ohio State fan base. It's glorious. Michigan has beaten Ohio State 4 years in a row- about to be 5 in a row, they didn't get the hammer like he and his Bucknutjob fanbois were predicting for years, and Michigan is doing better on the 'crootin' trail in Moore's first real full classes in 2025 & 2026 than Jeem had ever done on the trail save for maybe one or two classes in his 10 years in Ann Arbor. Homie is big mad and can't deal.

 

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