header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?

 (Read 36898 times)

rolltidefan

  • Global Moderator
  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 2219
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #196 on: November 16, 2017, 12:22:48 PM »
Maybe it's just me, but I think teams 5-13 are all very, very, very close in terms of how good they are.  I just don't see a lot of separation in that group of 8 teams.
i'd go ahead and throw in 1-4 as well. not a whole lot of separation this year, imo.

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #197 on: November 16, 2017, 12:57:19 PM »
a good win helps you more than a 'good' loss doesn't hurt you. or rather, a good win vs an average win is a big boost, while a 'good' loss vs an 'average' loss are both similarly detrimental. so, a loss is a loss, but a win isn't just a win, it can be a WIN.
Which I don't like.  I agree we focused TOO much on bad losses, without looking a wins before, but not all losses are even close to equal.

rolltidefan

  • Global Moderator
  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 2219
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #198 on: November 16, 2017, 01:22:11 PM »
agreed

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #199 on: November 16, 2017, 01:37:19 PM »
It appears that the Committee regards Clemson has having less than one loss.  Maybe half of a loss.  Otherwise, why is Clemson ahead of undefeated Miami?  Clemson's one big win at home over an Auburn squad that wasn't playing well at the time.  Miami's one big win was at home over Notre Dame.  But Clemson has a loss, to stinkin' Syracuse, so why are the Tigers ranked ahead of the Hurricanes?
Play Like a Champion Today

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #200 on: November 16, 2017, 01:51:48 PM »
I'm pretty sure they've directly said as much, due to Bryant's injury

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #201 on: November 16, 2017, 02:49:24 PM »
I'm pretty sure they've directly said as much, due to Bryant's injury
Yes.  But how much forgiveness should they get because their so-so QB went out with an injury?

I don't agree with the principle of taking injuries into account in the first place.  But, even granting the principle, Clemson's QB wasn't exactly a Mayfield, Darnold, or Rosen.

Clemson is getting the benefit of the doubt because they were last year's champs.

Similarly, Alabama has been pretty much ranked #1 (in the polls) all year and is now ranked #1 by the Committee because of past successes, without actually beating anyone very good THIS YEAR.  Bama's biggest win is the comeback over Mississippi State in its most recent game.  It was not nothing, and it was on the road, but it wasn't as good a win as Miami's over Notre Dame.

The Committee consistently violates the very rationales that it offers in explanation of its rankings.

I'd rank the top 4 this way:

1. Miami
2. Alabama
3. Oklahoma
4. Clemson
Play Like a Champion Today

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #202 on: November 16, 2017, 03:01:00 PM »
ESPN's selection committee knows that the ACC championship game will effectively be an elimination game for the 4-team CFP.  So it doesn't really matter in what order they rank them today.  Their only intent in delivering rankings today, is to generate controversy which they believe will result in heightened interest in their weekly show and ultimately more advertising dollars.  That is the sole purpose of releasing any ranking at all prior to the final one.



ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20320
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #203 on: November 16, 2017, 03:12:48 PM »
Yes.  But how much forgiveness should they get because their so-so QB went out with an injury?

I don't agree with the principle of taking injuries into account in the first place.  But, even granting the principle, Clemson's QB wasn't exactly a Mayfield, Darnold, or Rosen.

Clemson is getting the benefit of the doubt because they were last year's champs.

Similarly, Alabama has been pretty much ranked #1 (in the polls) all year and is now ranked #1 by the Committee because of past successes, without actually beating anyone very good THIS YEAR.  Bama's biggest win is the comeback over Mississippi State in its most recent game.  It was not nothing, and it was on the road, but it wasn't as good a win as Miami's over Notre Dame.

The Committee consistently violates the very rationales that it offers in explanation of its rankings.

I'd rank the top 4 this way:

1. Miami
2. Alabama
3. Oklahoma
4. Clemson
I agree with you.  I said the same thing above.  I'm just saying what they've said.  My top 4 was Alabama-Miami-Oklahoma-Clemson.

rolltidefan

  • Global Moderator
  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 2219
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #204 on: November 16, 2017, 04:47:06 PM »
Yes.  But how much forgiveness should they get because their so-so QB went out with an injury?

I don't agree with the principle of taking injuries into account in the first place.  But, even granting the principle, Clemson's QB wasn't exactly a Mayfield, Darnold, or Rosen.

Clemson is getting the benefit of the doubt because they were last year's champs.

Similarly, Alabama has been pretty much ranked #1 (in the polls) all year and is now ranked #1 by the Committee because of past successes, without actually beating anyone very good THIS YEAR.  Bama's biggest win is the comeback over Mississippi State in its most recent game.  It was not nothing, and it was on the road, but it wasn't as good a win as Miami's over Notre Dame.

The Committee consistently violates the very rationales that it offers in explanation of its rankings.

I'd rank the top 4 this way:

1. Miami
2. Alabama
3. Oklahoma
4. Clemson
i'd have no problem with that ranking.
i'd like to point out, though, that msu has 3 losses because they've played 3 top 10 teams (uga, au, bama). lots of really good teams would have 3 losses from that.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37524
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #205 on: November 16, 2017, 05:04:23 PM »
ESPN's selection committee knows that the ACC championship game will effectively be an elimination game for the 4-team CFP.  So it doesn't really matter in what order they rank them today.  Their only intent in delivering rankings today, is to generate controversy which they believe will result in heightened interest in their weekly show and ultimately more advertising dollars.  That is the sole purpose of releasing any ranking at all prior to the final one.



Ed Zachery, because if the season ended today, undefeated Wisconsin would be in the top 4
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25215
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #206 on: November 16, 2017, 05:28:05 PM »
Ed Zachery, because if the season ended today, undefeated Wisconsin would be in the top 4
Over who?

Helmet schools Bama and OU are in.

Miami is undefeated too, and has a (supposedly) awesome win over ND.

Clemson gets defending champion love.

If the season were to end today, Wisconsin would be #5.

End of story.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37524
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #207 on: November 16, 2017, 05:31:30 PM »
the Sooners would be left out for the sinful home loss to the Cyclones

and they should
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6045
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #208 on: November 16, 2017, 05:31:36 PM »
I agree with you.  I said the same thing above.  I'm just saying what they've said.  My top 4 was Alabama-Miami-Oklahoma-Clemson.
Yeah, I saw your earlier post after I made mine.  Sorry for any implication that I was correcting your point.
Play Like a Champion Today

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: Playoffs! Did someone say Playoffs?
« Reply #209 on: November 16, 2017, 05:47:59 PM »
Over who?

Helmet schools Bama and OU are in.

Miami is undefeated too, and has a (supposedly) awesome win over ND.

Clemson gets defending champion love.

If the season were to end today, Wisconsin would be #5.

End of story.
Yeah, it's a tough one to call.  I think you might be right on that.
However, assuming both Miami and Clemson win out, they will still have to play one another, and that will result in elimination.  If Wisconsin wins out, they're certainly in.  If they take a loss, well then all bets are off, of course.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.