PAC 12 Offseason Thread

[CatsbyAZ]

I don't understand the Pac 12 "Networks."  There is more than one?  I read an article on this recently and couldn't really understand how that system was supposed to work.  The B1G Network has a lot of dog programming, but at least there is just the one channel.

There’s a lot to be spoken for in later posts, especially when it comes to the disinterested culture of PAC 12 sports, but bringing up the PAC 12 “networks” is a bone I particularly wanted to pick. Whereas the BIG & SEC are available nationally for their regional coverage, the Great Lakes and the South respectively, the PAC 12 was unrolled with the Fox Sports regional channel format in mind – i.e. FS Arizona, FS Detroit, FS Carolinas – which to me seemed like splitting a pie, already smaller than the BIG & SEC, too many ways. The PAC 12 “networks” tried (sub)regionalizing Arizona, LA, Oregon, etc, which is really upsetting when I’m in LA during an Arizona basketball game and flip on the PAC 12 “networks” to instead find it’s the PAC 12 LA version, airing old UCLA Vs SC replays.

The bigger reason the PAC 12 network was never going to work as well as the BIG & SEC networks was due to spread of fan support. There are “Chicago Bars” all over Phoenix, for example, hosting large Sunday morning brunches for the local Bears fans. Same for the Vikings. And same for the Packers and Steelers to an even larger extent. And any number of sports bars across Tucson and Phoenix open at 9AM on Fall Saturdays to serve all the Great Lakes transplants the BIG Network’s noon EST kickoffs.

Meanwhile, pick any city east of the Mississippi. Other than NYC and DC, there’s almost no PAC 12 alumni clubs. UCLA does not have an alumni club in, say, Baltimore for Bruins fans to catch the 10PM EST kickoffs. Nor is there a Washington Huskies alumni club in Pittsburgh for doing the same. Or an Arizona Wildcats fan club in Charlotte airing all the 9PM weeknight basketball tipoffs. In other words, there’s no market for PAC 12 viewers going East.

Meanwhile, throughout Phoenix and Tucson, there are NUMEROUS bars dedicated to Badger, Buckeye, Wolverine, Hawkeye, and Nittany Lion kickoffs, all drawing large, native crowds. Looking at all the houses of my parent’s subdivision outside of Phoenix there are numerous flags, bumper stickers, and welcome mats for Big Ten Schools.

It cannot be stated enough that a huge disadvantage the PAC 12 “networks” ignored was the lack of PAC 12 followings spilling readily into other time zones.

[847badgerfan]

I've had great times at Badger bars in Newport, LA, Seattle and Scottsdale. I think the last one is my favorite. That place rocks on football Saturdays. But they are all really cool, and absolutely packed.

[CatsbyAZ]

I think the issue is more cultural than a matter of where these people are from. College football just isn't particularly important here. People don't grow up, like they do in Alabama, having to declare allegiance to the Tide or the Tigers. People don't sit around the office on Friday discussing USC's matchup for Saturday. And that's not a population issue; it's a culture issue. CFB just isn't pervasive here the way it is elsewhere.

The “culture” reason is too simplified of an answer without asking why the comparatively lesser culture is further waning. Why are PAC 12 sports declining from a solid option B entertainment to option C or D? The crosstown rivalry game doesn’t sell out anymore. Like your Alabama/Auburn example, I remember as a six year old in Florida getting asked by my fellow first grade buddies whether I was a Gator (“yes”) or a Nole (“no”). The sports following of the South fosters fan followings that transcends the alumni bases. You’ll hear Baptist pastors reference yesterday’s game and local car dealers incorporate the rivalries into their marketing. That doesn’t happen in Southern Cal for UCLA Vs USC. Save for SC’s Leinart/Bush dynasty 10-15 years ago, the Bruin and Trojan fandoms are only contained to their alumni bases. You’re a Trojan or Bruin when admitted into those schools whereas you’re a Gator or Nole by the time you turn six.
For Southern programs, the fan support and attendance through plateaued periods will emerge from dormancy and roar back when a good product is back on the field. This isn’t the case out West. To use UCLA as example, the Bruins are in the midst of losing out on a generation of younger fans due to twenty years of mediocre, uninspiring football and basketball. Those younger fans whose parents might be Bruins aren’t laying in hibernation and due to wake up when the Bruins might be good again – they’ve moved on if they were ever in the door and won’t be paying attention if UCLA regains their past successes.
To continue with UCLA, compare their current student allegiances to those of Alabama or Auburn whose students who grew up learning the program histories and are planning on attending the pep rallies and games. UCLA continues to foster such a large foreign student body a lot of their incoming students have no idea what it’s like to attend a college football game, don’t know the names of coaches or players, and don’t stay Bruins in the sense of following their sports programs after graduation. (Compare this to Michigan’s very sizable foreign student population who do in fact participate in Michigan’s sports culture).
Another hurdle the PAC 12 is dealing with is the different nature of regional sports coverage out West, which I want to address in a later post.

[847badgerfan]

An on-campus stadiette (50K or so) might help UCLA. The Rose Bowl is too big and it's pretty damn far away from campus. And traffic.. Yuck.

[betarhoalphadelta]

That doesn’t happen in Southern Cal for UCLA Vs USC. Save for SC’s Leinart/Bush dynasty 10-15 years ago, the Bruin and Trojan fandoms are only contained to their alumni bases. You’re a Trojan or Bruin when admitted into those schools whereas you’re a Gator or Nole by the time you turn six.

I disagree that they're only contained to their alumni bases. For example, my wife is barely a college sports fan at all (going to UCSB will do that to you). But she backs UCLA over USC, more out of hating USC. And there are a lot of fans of USC here that have NO connection to USC, because for a while it was the closest equivalent to an NFL team in SoCal. 
I think for the older generation of native Angelinos [although I hate that word], I do think USC/UCLA had some of that rivalry swagger that extended beyond the alumni base into the rest of the city. USC is "helmet" in football, and UCLA had the Wooden domination years in basketball. The Rose Bowl is an event, and MANY years it was either USC or UCLA in it, so the locals had a prominent national event on a national holiday to root for a team. But I think it has waned, and it's nearly gone now. And the re-emergence of NFL football here will make everyone forget it ever existed.

For Southern programs, the fan support and attendance through plateaued periods will emerge from dormancy and roar back when a good product is back on the field. This isn’t the case out West. To use UCLA as example, the Bruins are in the midst of losing out on a generation of younger fans due to twenty years of mediocre, uninspiring football and basketball. Those younger fans whose parents might be Bruins aren’t laying in hibernation and due to wake up when the Bruins might be good again – they’ve moved on if they were ever in the door and won’t be paying attention if UCLA regains their past successes.

This I do agree with. I think in the Southeast, that culture of "you're a fan of one team or the other, starting with childhood", still exists. I don't think it exists out here on the West Coast, and I don't think it's coming back.

[Cincydawg]

USC Alumni Club of Atlanta. 734 likes. Connecting members of the Trojan Family in the greater Atlanta area!

That's a Facebook page, don't know how active they are.  Atlanta may be something akin to CA, hardly anyone is from here.

College football is less than it used to be other than out in the 'burbs.  MSL soccer is huge, they routinely get over 70 K at a game, and the games look amazing on TV.  I'm going to try to attend one.

I live about 2 miles from the GT campus but I sense they have a lot of foreign students now for whom CFB is not cultural.  Folks are building a LOT of new high rise private dorms on this side of the freeway, maybe their enrollment is climbing.  GT used to be very interested in CFB.

I see a lot of SEC team license plates around, GA has special plates for nearly every SEC team.  Making money.

[CatsbyAZ]

I disagree that they're only contained to their alumni bases. For example, my wife is barely a college sports fan at all (going to UCSB will do that to you). But she backs UCLA over USC, more out of hating USC. And there are a lot of fans of USC here that have NO connection to USC, because for a while it was the closest equivalent to an NFL team in SoCal.

I agree, especially given the history of the SC-UCLA rivalry. Come to think of it I know a few USC fans who went elsewhere for school. It seems now though, their once readily available followings have eroded to the point it now takes SC football or UCLA basketball gaining national attention before the local market gives their notice, which is another angle I wanted to get to with how the local sports coverage creates yet another hurdle for fostering PAC 12 fan support.

In your first post when you said “Here in SoCal, basketball is 90% Lakers/Clippers unless you or a family member attended UCLA,” it’s also more accurately that the local coverage is 90% Lakers/Clippers regardless of what the actual fan followings are. Because most of the PAC 12 schools are schools centered in large metro areas the attention paid to them on the local radio, newspaper, and news broadcasts are completely drowned out by the emphasis on the Pro teams. The Seahawks receive 90% of talk radio attention in Seattle. As do the Cardinals in the Phoenix, the Broncos in Denver, and the Niners/Raiders in the Bay Area, leaving Huskies, Sun Devils, Buffalos, and Stanford & Cal lucky enough to receive 1 or 2 radio segments throughout an entire in-season week of almost all NFL talk.

It thus takes a specific interest in the college teams coupled with a willingness to dig for the nearly underground coverage their college teams receive from a few beat writers, dedicated podcasts, and the postgame call-ins. In NFL/NBA markets out West, college sports are treated like niche interests, similar to Golf and Bicycling. And when have Golf and Bicycling received unavoidable coverage? When a transcendent figure takes over the sport – Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong. That’s my point with the PAC 12 out west – it takes something like USC’s dynasty first receiving national attention before the local markets are willing to divert their attention from their format of 90% NFL/NBA coverage.

Conversely take Detroit’s WXYT (97.1) CBS Sports radio station: the local voice of the station, Mike Valenti, gives as much (probably more) commentary and call-in requests for Michigan and Michigan St commentary as he gives to the Lions, Piston, Tigers, & Wings, especially as those two college programs provide him entertaining material to spend time on – Bush kicking up the Spartans logo, Harbaugh’s setbacks vs OSU, Dantonio’s lack of offense, Beilein in the Final Four.

[betarhoalphadelta]

@CatsbyAZ I can't really argue with any of that. Well said.

[CatsbyAZ]

There are SEVEN PAC 12 schools without a single NFL combine invite - more than half the conference! Football is passing the West Coast by.

[847badgerfan]

Wow, that's bad. Illinois and Purdue are the only B1G school without invites.

[CatsbyAZ]

Pac 12 “in shambles,” so says 538:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-pac-12-is-in-shambles/

“As it currently stands, the conference would be lucky to receive two bids to the tournament, with the Huskies projected to be a No. 9 seed and Arizona State possibly squeaking in as a 12 seed. It’s been a quarter-century since a major conference produced a one-bid campaign.”

“If recent history serves, next month’s tournament will reinforce what many already know: The Pac-12, which hasn’t won a national title since Arizona cut down the nets in 1997, has fallen off considerably in terms of prestige.”

“The Pac-12 is also struggling in college football. Over the past two seasons, the conference is a combined 4-12 in bowl games, with three wins coming by a combined 4 points.”

“Oregon State has arguably been the worst Power Five football team for two consecutive years, and programs like Oregon, Stanford and USC, which traditionally have been competitive on a national level, have fallen off considerably. Washington’s good-but-not-good-enough seasonal cadence seems to have run its course, too.”

[FearlessF]

Listening to Bill Walton last night during the Zona-Oregon game, the conference of Champions is solid and preparing to send many great teams to the tournament

[CatsbyAZ]

Larry Scott spends Vegas in a $7500/night ARIA suite

The ADs have been bellyaching for years about “limo Larry’s” expenses. The conference is lagging behind its Power Five Conference peers when it comes to financial distributions to members. The men and women responsible for budgeting for athletics on their own campuses would like to examine the financials.

https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2019/03/canzano-the-view-from-the-pac-12-conferences-imperial-palace-lacks-visibility.html

[Brutus Buckeye]

Does their commish really make over twice as much as the next highest?