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Topic: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #154 on: March 20, 2018, 02:57:44 PM »
West - UNL, Iowa, Minn, Wisc
Central - NU, ILL, IU, PU
East - Rut, Md, UNC, UVA
Big-Boy Pants - M, OSU, MSU, PSU

To help people understand the scheduling of this, we'll pretend to be Michigan and assume a 9-game conference schedule.  We'll play every other B10 school every 2 years, which means a home-and-home with everyone within every 4 years (one player's career).

Michigan 2018
@OSU
MSU
@PSU
Rut
@Md
NU
@ILL
UNL
@Iowa

Michigan 2019
OSU
@MSU
PSU
@UNC
UVA
@IU
PU
@Minn
Wisc

Michigan 2020
@OSU
MSU
@PSU
@Rut
Md
@NU
ILL
@UNL
Iowa

Michigan 2021
OSU
@MSU
PSU
UNC
@UVA
IU
@PU
Minn
@Wisc

So despite a 16-school mega-conference, this schedule does a helluva lot better job than the current 12 or 14-school conferences.  If you're a recruit, you know you'll see everyone else at least twice, including both home and away.

It may seem big and imposing and crazy, but the 4x4 pods idea is too prudent to not implement when we get there.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 05:54:13 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #155 on: March 20, 2018, 03:05:24 PM »
I quit reading after I was asked to pretend that we're Michigan. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #156 on: March 20, 2018, 03:25:21 PM »
Quote from: TyphonInc on March 18, 2018, 04:46:06 PM
Not sure you were the one getting called pathetic.
I'm sure.

UTee quoted me before he replied to me:



Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 17, 2018, 01:50:57 PM
Quote
Doesn't Illinois bring in the St. Louis market for BTN? Thought I read that somewhere.

Honestly, do you actually care?  This is the worst problem with the current expansion/realignment discussions, every random college football fan attempts to become an expert in Nielsen ratings and television revenue markets.
If you actually care about that crap, then you're a pretty pathetic college football fan.  Just my opinion, of course.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #157 on: March 20, 2018, 03:25:55 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2018, 02:57:44 PM
West - UNL, Iowa, Minn, Wisc
Central - NU, ILL, IU, PU
East - Rut, Md, UNC, UVA
Big-Boy Pants - M, OSU, MSU, PSU

Only problem is that you completely lose competitive balance. The Central pod might as well just be called patsies. [And yes, I know my school is in there.]
You have to put M and OSU in the same pod. It's not good for the conference when they don't play each other. The question is whether you try to ALSO preserve the M/MSU rivalry or not. I'd vote no; M gets one rivalry preserved and that's going to be OSU.
I also think the in-state rivalries of NU/ILL and PU/IU are worth keeping. Not because of any reason other than they're in-state and involve teams that aren't major problems for competitive balance to affect things.
I'd propose the below:
West - UNL, IA, MN, WI
Central 1 - NU, ILL, MSU, PSU --- OR --- NU, ILL, M, OSU
Central 2 - M, OSU, PU, IU --- OR --- MSU, PSU, PU, IU
East - RU, MD, UNC, UVA
The first option causes a bit of a problem because it makes PSU travel farther to the state of Illinois. The second makes more geographic sense as Ohio/Ann Arbor/Chicago/Champaign seems more doable than making PSU go that far west. 
PSU unfortunately becomes the odd man out in either scenario, as they don't make sense with the 4-team East nexus and yet they're far enough east that it's tough to pair them with teams too far west. But I think you could go either way with the central regions I mentioned.
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FearlessF

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #158 on: March 20, 2018, 03:43:56 PM »
PSU has been the odd man since they joined
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #159 on: March 20, 2018, 03:55:34 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on March 20, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
PSU has been the odd man since they joined
True, but I think the addition of MD and RU might help to create an east coast nexus.
For example, if the B1G were able to add Oklahoma and Texas, you could have a pod of OSU/PSU/MD/RU, and PSU would fit nicely there. Or if you added something like just WVU, and then a more western school like Kansas, you could have PSU/MD/RU/WV, and that would fit. 
But if we assume that the most likely adds are UVA/UNC, you've just excluded PSU from the East group, and then you have to figure out how to fit them into the middle. 
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #160 on: March 20, 2018, 04:33:52 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on March 20, 2018, 03:25:55 PM
Only problem is that you completely lose competitive balance. The Central pod might as well just be called patsies. [And yes, I know my school is in there.]
You have to put M and OSU in the same pod. It's not good for the conference when they don't play each other. The question is whether you try to ALSO preserve the M/MSU rivalry or not. I'd vote no; M gets one rivalry preserved and that's going to be OSU.
I also think the in-state rivalries of NU/ILL and PU/IU are worth keeping. Not because of any reason other than they're in-state and involve teams that aren't major problems for competitive balance to affect things.
I'd propose the below:
West - UNL, IA, MN, WI
Central 1 - NU, ILL, MSU, PSU --- OR --- NU, ILL, M, OSU
Central 2 - M, OSU, PU, IU --- OR --- MSU, PSU, PU, IU
East - RU, MD, UNC, UVA
The first option causes a bit of a problem because it makes PSU travel farther to the state of Illinois. The second makes more geographic sense as Ohio/Ann Arbor/Chicago/Champaign seems more doable than making PSU go that far west.
PSU unfortunately becomes the odd man out in either scenario, as they don't make sense with the 4-team East nexus and yet they're far enough east that it's tough to pair them with teams too far west. But I think you could go either way with the central regions I mentioned.
I have always believed that you HAVE to have a "Helmet" in each pod and that is the reason we took Nebraska.  From there everything falls into place:
  • Nebraska's obvious pod-mates are MN, UW, and IA
  • PSU's obvious pod-mates are UMD, UVA, UNC
  • MSU has to go with Michigan so they need two more.  Since Michigan will have a cross-over rivalry with Ohio State it makes sense to just fill that in by sticking the two northern IN/IL schools with the Michigan schools and the two southern IN/IL schools with tOSU and the odd man out, Rutgers.  

I think that OAM's pods make no sense because the competitive balance isn't there.  MSU gets an impossibly difficult situation and the "central" is WAY too weak.  
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #161 on: March 20, 2018, 06:13:27 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 20, 2018, 04:33:52 PM

 
That's assuming there are protected rivalries. I wouldn't make that assumption. It will cause all sorts of issues with the scheduling to put UM and OSU in different pods and actually protect their rivalry.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #162 on: March 20, 2018, 06:27:26 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2018, 02:50:47 PM
So if tOSU and Michigan got to make the B10 pods in the 16-school version of the conference, how would they do it?  Would they want annual big games or would they put themselves in with 3 patsies?  Does it matter all that much if they play every other school at least every other year?

I'm asking for (gulp) realism-sake.
It isn't just about the "Helmets", it is also about everybody else being able to sell tickets and make money.  When Ohio State, Michigan, or Nebraska comes to town the stadiums in West Lafayette, Champaign, etc fill up.  That matters too!
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #163 on: March 20, 2018, 06:30:33 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on March 20, 2018, 06:13:27 PM
That's assuming there are protected rivalries. I wouldn't make that assumption. It will cause all sorts of issues with the scheduling to put UM and OSU in different pods and actually protect their rivalry.
That is another benefit of pods, they allow for protected rivalries.  With the 14 team, two divisions of seven model that we currently have only IU and PU have a protected rivalry.  For them:
  • They play their six division-mates every year
  • They play each other every year
  • That accounts for seven games and only leaves two more to play the other six teams.  With sixteen teams in two eight-team divisions you would need seven games just to play your division-mates.  If you had a protected cross-over then you would have eight games every year and only one extra to play the other seven teams.  It would take 14 years to host and travel to each of them.  With Pods that isn't an issue.  
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SFBadger96

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #164 on: March 20, 2018, 07:50:23 PM »
I'm going with 
"West:" Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska
"Crappy:" Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern (sorry, Northwestern!)
"East:" MSU, OSU, Michigan, PSU
"Why are they here:" Maryland, Rutgers, UNC, UVA
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utee94

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #165 on: March 20, 2018, 09:34:39 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
Money helps Texas with wins and losses?


Anyway, I do care about the BTN and ratings, only because I happen to think that it will be the only way to see my favorite team in the near future. I'm not sure why that would make me a pathetic fan.
Sorry badge, I wasn't singling you out there although it looked like it, was just lamenting the situation.  It was a general observation-- college football fans worrying about which schools "carry" which television markets is just one of the many horrible symptoms of the rapidly spreading disease within the sport.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #166 on: March 21, 2018, 12:00:14 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 20, 2018, 06:27:26 PM
It isn't just about the "Helmets", it is also about everybody else being able to sell tickets and make money.  When Ohio State, Michigan, or Nebraska comes to town the stadiums in West Lafayette, Champaign, etc fill up.  That matters too!
I know it does.  That's why I'm asking for input.  I know my pods aren't realistic.  That's why I'm asking for other ideas.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: P5 Alignment - post NCAA Membership
« Reply #167 on: March 21, 2018, 12:09:05 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on March 20, 2018, 06:30:33 PM
That is another benefit of pods, they allow for protected rivalries.  With the 14 team, two divisions of seven model that we currently have only IU and PU have a protected rivalry.  For them:
  • They play their six division-mates every year
  • They play each other every year
  • That accounts for seven games and only leaves two more to play the other six teams.  With sixteen teams in two eight-team divisions you would need seven games just to play your division-mates.  If you had a protected cross-over then you would have eight games every year and only one extra to play the other seven teams.  It would take 14 years to host and travel to each of them.  With Pods that isn't an issue.  

In a 16-school conference with pods, you sabotage the wonderful scheduling potential by having out-of-pod protected rivalries.  Horrible idea.
Looks to me like a B10 + UNC + UVA pod system has it easy with the
West - UNL, Iowa, Minn, Wisc
East - Rut, UMd, UNC, UVa
The mess is in the middle.  Without protected rivalries, because we want schools to play EVERYONE else every 2 years (and home-and-home with EVERYONE every 4 years), we ensure M-OSU in a pod.
Michigan, Ohio St, ____, ______
Those 2 spots plus the last pod are made up of MSU, PSU, PU, IU, ILL, NU.  Those in-state pairs will want to be annual rivals, so yes, we are left with MSU and PSU.  Sorry, but that's a red-headed stepchild and the guy who showed up 75 years after the party started.
Stick the IN schools with M and OSU and the IL schools with MSU and PSU.  It's not that big a deal, to be honest.  It could be mapped out so that MSU plays Michigan one year and OSU the next, forever.  They'll play one or the other every year.  Indiana will play Nebraska and UNC and EVERYONE ELSE every other year.  

It's a great system.  
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