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Topic: OT - Weird History

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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4816 on: May 08, 2025, 07:54:14 PM »


First naval battle where contestants never were in visual range of each other.
It was my understanding that tactically the IJF had a slight edge.The Allies achieved a strategic victory by halting the push southward and blunting the seaborne thrust toward Port Moresby by the US Pacific Fleet and ANZAC forces . The Battle of the Coral Sea saw the ascendancy of U.S. Navy aviation.

Dug this up
The Bomb That Changed the Course of the War

On 8 May 1942, 24 SBD Dauntless dive bombers from USS Yorktown (CV-5) commenced an attack on the Japanese fleet carrier IJN Shokaku in the Coral Sea. As each bomber nosed over in near-vertical dives from 18,000 feet on the wildly maneuvering Shokaku, their windscreens and bomb sights fogged over so badly during the descent that the U.S. pilots were blinded, forced to release their bombs "by memory." Although one bomb hit the Shokaku very near the bow and started a serious fire, one bomb after another missed.

Finally one SBD, piloted by Lieutenant John Powers (U.S. Naval Academy '35), his wing on fire after being hit by canon fire from a Japanese Zero fighter, pressed his dive well below the standard minimum pull-up altitude. Power's bomb hit Shokaku nearly dead center and caused horrific and nearly fatal damage, starting massive fires and killing over 100 Japanese sailors. Unable to pull up in time, Powers flew through the frag pattern of his own bomb and crashed alongside the Shokaku. Although 15 dive bombers off the USS Lexington (CV-2) would later manage to hit the Shokaku with one more bomb, it was Power's bomb that knocked Shokaku out of action for the rest of the battle, leaving her unable to recover aircraft, and with damage so severe that she was unable to participate in the critical and decisive Battle of Midway one month later, where her presence could have easily turned that battle into a catastrophic defeat for the United States.

By the sacrifice of his life and that of his radioman-gunner (Radioman Second Class Everett Clyde Hill), Powers quite likely prevented the loss of the Yorktown at the Battle of the Coral Sea and changed the outcome of two of the most important battles of World War II. For his valor, Powers was awarded the Medal of Honor, posthumously. Hill's parents received his $10,000 G.I. life insurance policy payout.

Heroes
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4817 on: May 09, 2025, 07:05:20 AM »
I had not heard that story before, thanks.  I agree Coral Sea is viewed as a tactical Japanese victory.  Zuikaku and Shokaku were unavailable for Midway while Yorktown was bandaged together enough to fight there.  That in itself is a story somewhere.  Hornet did almost nothing at Midway which I didn't quite understand.

I had not watched "Pacific" until earlier this week.  I had started the book a long while back and the first parts I viewed as not as good as "Band of Bros" (I still don't), but I went back a while later and read it.  It's obviously overlapping with "With the Old Breed" a lot, which is probably the best war memoir I've ever read, it'll make a pacifist out of you, and
HfMP"..   Pacific was pretty depressing, for me, which is warranted.

The old "war movies" can be entertaining, but they really don't play up the horrors and miseries of war for obvious reasons.  May is when my son's unit in Iraq started taking casualties, so I get a lot of FB memorials about now from Marines.  

ION, I watched a show last night on "1812", I think I had seen it before, it was reasonably well done, I was thinking how often "we" as a nation enter into wars that aren't really merited.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4818 on: May 10, 2025, 07:39:15 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Victoria Woodhull Is Nominated for President of the US (1872)
Woodhull was a prominent US women's rights advocate, suffragist, and owner of a weekly publication known for printing the first English translation of The Communist Manifesto. In May of 1872, she became the first female candidate for president when a group of suffragists formed a political party and nominated her, but because she was a woman many disputed the legality of her candidacy.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4819 on: May 10, 2025, 07:40:15 AM »
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

John Wilkes Booth (1838)
Born into a family of famous actors, Booth made his acting debut at the age of 17. Touring widely, he soon became a wealthy celebrity, earning acclaim for his Shakespearean roles. However, he harbored deep Confederate sympathies and viewed President Abraham Lincoln as a tyrant. In April of 1865, he assassinated Lincoln at Ford's Theater, where Lincoln had previously watched him perform. Twelve days later, Booth was shot and killed by a Union soldier.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4820 on: May 10, 2025, 08:16:29 AM »
Engine #73 of the Tallulah Falls Railroad at the last depot on the line, the Franklin NC Depot. Photo from Frank Ardrey Jr.  The TF ran from Cornelia GA up through Rabun County to Franklin until it was shut down in 1961.



When I was a kid about 6, my mom would drive to her parent's house in Tennessee with part of the route being parallel to these RR tracks.  I remember one trestle that made an impression on me, it's long gone of course.  There was a place overlooking Tallulah Gorge where one could see the RR grade below the road.  I don't recall seeing any trains running.  Some of the stations survived now tourist shops mostly.

My mom preferred going a different route through SC, but I liked this one, it was more scenic, but the roads then were old and curvy and slow.

Either way we had to cross the Smokies, which was fun for me.  Sometimes we'd see bears, usually with people in cars feeding them.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4821 on: May 10, 2025, 08:45:45 AM »
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4822 on: May 10, 2025, 10:28:12 AM »
I had not watched "Pacific" until earlier this week.  I had started the book a long while back and the first parts I viewed as not as good as "Band of Bros" (I still don't), but I went back a while later and read it.  It's obviously overlapping with "With the Old Breed" a lot, which is probably the best war memoir I've ever read, it'll make a pacifist out of you, and
HfMP"..  Pacific was pretty depressing, for me, which is warranted.

The old "war movies" can be entertaining, but they really don't play up the horrors and miseries of war for obvious reasons.  May is when my son's unit in Iraq started taking casualties, so I get a lot of FB memorials about now from Marines. 
The Pacific was less fighting(maybe) than the ETO but even more brutal(IMHO). The IJF never signed the terms of The Geneva Convention that even the Wehrmacht had agreed to. What the IJF did to the Chinese just after Doolittle's raid for aiding/abetting American Airmen, alone - slaughtered 1/4 of a million inhabitants.When the IJF pulled back from Manilla on Luzon in the Philippines 100,000 to the blade their goons bayoneted pregnant women.That's just some of it we know.

The Press in the USA kept much of this from the public as many of their sons/brothers suffered the same tormenting fates.Then of course all of viruses,diseases in the steaming hot jungles always humid or raining was rife with infections. With modern societies nowhere around with up to date medical facilities that Europe had though many had been damaged,destroyed. ETO got more press simply because most Americans had relatives living and/or fighting there. Many Chinese and Phillipinos even today detest Japan for the wanton henious disregard for life. Though murder - a slug to the head would be merciful,much like the SS Camps
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4823 on: May 10, 2025, 10:31:17 AM »
My Dad was over there in the USAAF, he had "jungle rot" all his life and a bad back.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4824 on: May 10, 2025, 11:01:32 AM »
I remember maybe the old board you had posted pictures of the crew - B24 if i remember right.Great choice for the Pacific. The B-24 design was fairly simple, and the fuel consumption was highly efficient and incredible range many of them served as personnel transports at first, but their capability as effective submarine hunters was quickly recognized closing the atlantic gap that the allies ships could not because of fuel. Operating by the British and Canadians(then the GIs) on the two sides of the Atlantic Ocean, B-24 bombers made significant contributions in the Battle of the Atlantic. Nicknamed "VLR" for "Very Long Range", these converted Liberator bombers were involved with 72 U-boat sinkings.
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4825 on: May 10, 2025, 11:32:46 AM »
Yes, he was a radar operator on a B-24 in SWPAC.  Earlier he flew antisub patrols out of Langley, but those were in a B-18 equipped with radar.

His B-24 went down off Guadalcanal, the story about why is confused, but my Dad eventually was awarded a Purple Heart.  

He doesn't know how he got out, he woke up injured in the water.  He said maybe the radar dome hit the water and broke the plane apart.


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4826 on: May 10, 2025, 11:40:01 AM »
Angelo Bartelli, Notre Dame QB, finished 2nd for the Heisman in 1941.
He produced 3 points that year.
3 extra point kicks. 
No passing TDs.
No rushing TDs.
1 interception on defense.
.
He threw 10 interceptions at QB.
Ran for 1.4 yards per carry.
.
What in the actual hell?

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4827 on: May 10, 2025, 11:41:30 AM »
Maybe nobody else had a better year but the guy who won?

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4828 on: May 10, 2025, 11:56:34 AM »
Maybe nobody else had a better year but the guy who won?
Maybe the ND worship was strong already?

Maybe no one scored more than 3 total points for the SEASON?  Maybe no one had a better TD/INT ratio than 0/10?!?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #4829 on: May 10, 2025, 12:54:03 PM »
When Bertelli entered Notre Dame in 1940, he was 6 feet 1 inch and 173 pounds, a skinny but highly regarded tailback in the single-wing formation used by most college teams. When Coach Elmer Layden left to become commissioner of the National Football League, Notre Dame's new coach Frank Leahy immediately noticed Bertelli's passing talents.

As a sophomore, Bertelli, still a single-wing tailback, led the nation with a 56.9 percent passing average, completing 70 of 123 attempts. In 1942, Leahy switched to a modified T formation, in which Bertelli would play under the center and take every snap.[1] As he told his budding star, "Bert, you're the finest passer and the worst runner I've ever coached." That summer, preparing for his new role, Bertelli said he took "a thousand snaps...maybe a million." Bertelli and the T-formation were an immediate success. He passed for 1,039 yards and 10 touchdowns. Celebrated sportswriter Grantland Rice referenced Bertelli as "the T-formation magician."

During his senior year in 1943, the Marine Corps activated Bertelli after six games of Notre Dame's 10-game season. In the six games Bertelli started in, he threw 36 passes, completing 25 with 10 touchdowns. Bertelli's six-game 1943 performance was enough to win the Heisman Trophy earning 648 votes; he was informed of his Heisman win while in boot camp at Parris Island.[1] During Bertelli's three seasons, Notre Dame lost only three games. In 1943, Notre Dame won 43 to 5 on average.

Bertelli's collegiate career earned him multiple awards. He was named to the 1942 and 1943 All-American teams. In the Heisman voting for America's outstanding college football player, Bertelli finished second in 1941 and sixth in 1942 before capturing the trophy in 1943. Though he was on active duty with the Marine Corps, the Boston Yanks selected Bertelli as their number one draft choice in 1944. Bertelli was inducted to the College Football Hall of Fame in 1972.

Angelo Bertelli College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

 

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