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Topic: OT - Weird History

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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3584 on: June 24, 2024, 07:45:56 AM »
1812 Napoleon Bonaparte's Grand Armée numbering half a million begin their invasion of Russia by crossing the Nieman River

1853 US President Franklin Pierce signs the Gadsden Purchase, buying 29,670 square-miles from Mexico for $10 million - now southern Arizona and New Mexico
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3585 on: June 24, 2024, 07:51:18 AM »
1812 Napoleon Bonaparte's Grand Armée numbering half a million begin their invasion of Russia by crossing the Nieman River
This is also the day the Nazi regime invaded "Russia", with somewhat similar results.

There is a theory that Mussolini's invasion of Greece caused Hitler to set back the invasion by a critical 2-3 weeks.  That may not be true.

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3586 on: June 24, 2024, 08:49:27 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

One of the First Major Outbreaks of St. John's Dance (1374)
Germany was the site of one of the first outbreaks of dancing mania, a phenomenon seen primarily in mainland Europe between the 14th and 17th centuries. During such outbreaks, groups of up to thousands of people would dance uncontrollably, screaming, shouting, and claiming to have visions until they collapsed from exhaustion. Initially considered a curse sent by a saint, usually St. John the Baptist, it was called "St. John's Dance."
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3587 on: June 24, 2024, 10:51:53 AM »


S-A-A-TAN!!!
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"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3588 on: June 24, 2024, 11:12:34 AM »
St. John's Dance | Europeana
St. John's Dance | Europeana

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3589 on: June 25, 2024, 08:07:51 AM »
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Korean War Begins (1950)
After WWII, Korea was divided at the 38th parallel, with Soviet forces occupying the north and US forces occupying the south. Negotiations to reunify the two zones failed, and in 1950 the North invaded the South. US President Harry Truman ordered troops to assist South Korea, and the UN backed the mission. As UN troops advanced across North Korea, the People's Republic of China intervened, pushing them back to the original boundary at the 38th parallel.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3590 on: June 25, 2024, 08:10:51 AM »
The initial phase of the Korean War was very nearly a US/UN loss.  The troops we had available nearby were basically garrison units from Japan used to just sitting around watching.  North Korean forces pushed them into the Pusan Perimeter which was barely held.


FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3591 on: June 25, 2024, 08:17:21 AM »
interesting to wonder if the world would be much different today if Korea would have been unified by the north in the early 50s
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3592 on: June 25, 2024, 08:20:08 AM »
Another war we should not have entered.

China benefitted the most from that conflict.
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FearlessF

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3593 on: June 25, 2024, 08:25:10 AM »
I understand that there was a thought and fear that communism would spread worldwide but, how realistic was that?
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3594 on: June 25, 2024, 08:26:40 AM »
You might extrapolate from what has happened in say Vietnam, which turned "communist", or China, as well.  THey morph into something else.  I hear Vietnam is doing pretty well today.

South Korea is impressive, North Korea is a total mess.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3595 on: June 25, 2024, 08:28:04 AM »
I understand that there was a thought and fear that communism would spread worldwide but, how realistic was that?
It was somewhat realistic, but as I note above, had it happened more broadly, it probably would not have been disastrous, or not as bad as the wars we fought.

Korea technically was a UN war.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3596 on: June 25, 2024, 09:05:42 AM »
The US of course worried mightly about Cuba.  I've been to Havana, it's a mess, really, people begging in the streets, delapidated old buildings housing 10 families, these ancient cars puffing around smoking like crazy.  "Communism" has to morph into crony capitalism to have much of a shot at anything.

I will say the "private stores" in Cuba were decent, you could tell immediately if you entered a government tourist shop, it was obvious.  If we opened up to Cuba, IMHO, and turned Hilton and Marriot loose down there, they'd be quasi-capitalist in about 20 years.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Weird History
« Reply #3597 on: June 25, 2024, 09:06:49 AM »
1812 Napoleon Bonaparte's Grand Armée numbering half a million begin their invasion of Russia by crossing the Nieman River
This is also the day the Nazi regime invaded "Russia", with somewhat similar results.

There is a theory that Mussolini's invasion of Greece caused Hitler to set back the invasion by a critical 2-3 weeks.  That may not be true.
I used to think the delay due to Mussolini's catastrophe in Greece was critical but I've done more research and I no longer believe that the Greek issue was critical for two reasons:

First, even without the invasion of Greece, the Germans had to wait out the Spring Rainy season because there were very few paved roads in the USSR so they needed at least relatively dry land for tanks and other large vehicles to traverse.  Therefore, they couldn't have invaded much sooner than they did anyway.  

Second, it is easy to look at the maps, see that the Germans got to the outskirts of Moscow right before the Eastern Soviet Troops showed up and pushed them back and think: "Hey, if they had an extra two weeks, they could have taken Moscow." but I think that is a massive oversimplification.  They got to Leningrad with plenty of time to spare and surrounded it for literally years without taking it.  Also look at Stalingrad, taking a large urban area from a determined foe is no easy lift.  Beyond that, the major German problem outside of Moscow wasn't the weather nor even the extra Soviet Troops that showed up from the far east after Sorge (incredibly interesting guy) told the Soviets that the Japanese were heading South and East and NOT planning on attacking the Soviets.  Instead, the biggest problem for the Germans was logistics.  They had simply outrun their ability to keep their army supplied with food, fuel, ammunition, etc.  

 

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