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Topic: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida

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ELA

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OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« on: July 11, 2022, 10:17:08 AM »
The resumes:

2002 Kansas State (11-2)
  • Lost by 4 at Colorado and by 3 to #8 Texas in October
  • Beat #21 Iowa State 58-7
  • 27-20 win over #11 USC was their only regular season win by less than 34 points.  Average score in other 9 wins was 53-6, including 3 shutouts, and 7 times holding opponent to 10 points or less
  • All-Americans: CB Terence Newman (unanimous)

2009 Florida (13-1)
  • Loss to Alabama in SEC Championship Game ended 22 game win streak
  • Lone win over ranked team was 13-3 over #4 LSU in Baton Rouge
  • Beat #4 Cincinnati in Sugar Bowl
  • Held 6 opponents to single digits
  • All-Americans: CB Joe Haden (unanimous), TE Aaron Hernandez (consensus), OC Maurkice Pouncey (consensus), OG Mike Pouncey, LB Brandon Spikes
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FearlessF

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2022, 10:43:18 AM »
that's a tough one
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2022, 11:52:03 AM »
2009 Florida is really hard to judge because of a set of oddities that all work together:

  • Their OOC was weak because FSU was mediocre (7-6).
  • This was a strange year in the SEC: Only Florida and Bama (both 8-0) finished above 5-3) while only Vandy (0-8) finished below 3-5. The other nine teams all finished within a game of .500 in the league. 
  • Florida's bowl opponent was non-P5.
  • Florida lost badly (32-13) in the SECCG but it was to NC Bama.

Thus, despite playing in the SEC and only having one loss, the 2009 Gators have very little in the way of quality wins.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2022, 05:47:42 PM »
KSU OOC:  Western Ky, La-Monroe, Eastern Ill.
7-6 FSU doesn't look so bad now.
.
KSU lost twice including to unranked CU (eventually #20).
Florida lost once, to the NC.
@medinabuckeye1, your post kind of suggest you're holding Florida to a higher standard, no?
Poo-poo the OOC schedule, but KSU's was easily worse.
Florida's bowl opponent was G5, but it was also undefeated and ranked 4th, lol.
.
KSU lost to the team that finished a game ahead of it in its own division.  Don't get me wrong, their point diff was great, and that's what happens when you curb-stomp a bunch of hot garbage.  SP+ must love them!
.
But what we have here is simply the 2008 champs minus Percy Harvin vs a 2-loss Big 12 team.  I recall their top teams not faring too well vs the SEC.  It's too bad KSU didn't get a chance at OU that year, but they didn't earn that chance, so....
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2022, 07:24:31 PM »
@OrangeAfroMan ,
I get what you are saying. 

I honestly cane to this thread expecting to vote for UF as an obvious thing.

Then I read @ELA 's post and only saw one win over a ranked opponent and that surprised me.

I looked deeper and even that wasn't actually as impressive as it looked in the OP. UF beat then 5-0 and #4 LSU but LSU went 4-4 starting with UF and finished #17.

It was just a strange year for UF so their schedule wasn't what it normally is. 

Against the nine SEC teams that finished between 3-5 and 5-3 the Gators:

  • Won at LSU by 10
  • Won at home over TN by 10
  • Beat UGA in the WLOCP by 24
  • Won at home over Arkansas by 3
  • Won at UK by 34
  • Won at USCe by 10
  • Won at MsSt by 10
That isn't all that impressive and you and I have roughly the same view of Cincy.

What is 2009 UF's signature win? 

KSU has warts too, I haven't explored all of that. I just was surprised that this wasn't an easy call.

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bayareabadger

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2022, 08:07:44 PM »
Wins vs teams in the final polls (you could convince me to use pre-bowl rankings as well)

UF
No. 8 (12-1 mid-major)
17 (9-4 SEC)

Other winning record opponents: Troy (9-4), FSU (7-6), Arkansas (8-5), UGA (8-5) UT (7-6), UK (7-6), SC (7-6). Top-10 offense and defense and generally dominant (six of 14 games within 10, only four with UF not winning by 10 or more) EDITED BECAUSE I AM DUMB

KSU
No. 4 (11-2 Pac-10)

Other winning record opponents: OkSU (8-5). Top-10 offense and defense and generally dominant (four of 13 games within 10).

Yeah, I might have found that KSU team more fun for a range of reasons and the strengthening of the middle of the SEC is maybe a tad overstated, but that UF team was much better.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2022, 10:59:29 PM by bayareabadger »
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2022, 08:32:19 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on July 11, 2022, 08:07:44 PM
Wins vs teams in the final polls (you could convince me to use pre-bowl rankings as well)

UF
No. 8 (12-1 mid-major)
17 (9-4 SEC)
20 (9-4 SEC)
Probably doesn't make a big difference but #20 was Ole Miss. Florida didn't play Ole Miss is 2009, they played MsSt. Their three SEC-W crossovers were LSU, Arkansas, and the aforementioned Mississippi State. 
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ELA

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2022, 08:49:46 PM »
KSU arguably had better wins.  But they also CLEARLY had the worse loss, and two of them.  They both racked up a bunch of bad wins.  Florida over mediocre SEC team, KSU by a ton over bottoming Big XII teams.  I voted Florida, simply because they had one extremely forgiveable loss, but off the top of my head, I would have guessed they were a contender to win this, and I don't actually think they are
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FearlessF

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2022, 09:43:39 PM »
I'm the lone vote for KSU

still ok with that vote
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MarqHusker

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2022, 10:27:02 PM »
KSU has a better team that should qualify for this tournament.
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bayareabadger

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2022, 11:00:31 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2022, 08:32:19 PM
Probably doesn't make a big difference but #20 was Ole Miss. Florida didn't play Ole Miss is 2009, they played MsSt. Their three SEC-W crossovers were LSU, Arkansas, and the aforementioned Mississippi State.
Actually, I disagree. Another 9-4 SEC west team isn't the bee's knees, but it's a chip as a No. 3 win. 
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ELA

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2022, 11:19:54 PM »
Quote from: MarqHusker on July 11, 2022, 10:27:02 PM
KSU has a better team that should qualify for this tournament.
Probably shouldn't have lost in an Alamo Bowl to a mediocre Purdue team
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MarqHusker

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2022, 11:25:06 PM »
I doubt a non-'major' bowl game outside of one or two Holiday Bowls has been more discussed/debated more than that Purdue v KSU Alamo Bowl.

That would be a good thread.
tOSU v Clem, Gator '78
BYU v SMU Holiday '80
BYU v Mich Holiday '84
all come to mind.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT Tourney (1st Round) - 2002 Kansas State vs. 2009 Florida
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2022, 11:56:45 PM »
Yeah, Florida's SEC slate wasn't as hard as usual, but again, that's sort of holding them to a higher standard.  
If the roles were reversed and KSU had only lost to the eventual NC and Florida hadn't even won its division and had an extra loss, my only argument would be talent level or something.  It would look foolish.
But KSU is KSU and one of their best team seasons is being compared to a non-NC Florida team that was 1 game away from possibly repeating as NC.  
KSU had Darren Sproles.  Cool.  Florida had 2.  
KSU couldn't pass for shit.
One could make the argument that Florida sort of sleep-walked through its schedule, as aside from the LSU game, there were a lack of big-time opponents, and Florida vs Alabama in Atlanta seemed inevitable.  
If I went with the "if they actually played" idea, I think it would be a lopsided game.  But I don't need to do that.
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