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Topic: OT - Significant Battles in History

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CWSooner

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2019, 09:04:40 PM »
There were three atomic bombs built in the spring of 1945 at Los Alamos.

Two used plutonium and one used uranium.

The plutonium type was considered more experimental, so one of them--"Gadget"--was tested at the Trinity site.

The uranium one--"Little Boy"--was dropped over Hiroshima.

The plutonium one--"Fat Man"--was dropped over Nagasaki.

That was all of them for the time being.

The B-29s had to be specially modified to "Silverplate" specifications.  Special facilities were built on Tinian to house the bombs and transport them to the loading sites.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2019, 09:09:53 PM »
https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-planned-to-drop-12-atomic-bombs-on-japan

[color=rgba(2, 20, 31, 0.85)]Archival records show a third bomb was under assembly at Tinian in the Mariana Islands where the Enola Gay and Bockscar had flown from, with the main plutonium core about to be shipped from the U.S.[/color]
[color=rgba(2, 20, 31, 0.85)]Although some aircrew saw “Tokyo Joe” chalked on the bomb’s casing, it was said to be destined for Kokura, the original target for the second bomb, and named “Fat Boy.”[/color]
[color=rgba(2, 20, 31, 0.85)]A transcript of a top-level call between two military experts on August 13 reveals details of this “third shot.” It also confirmed that a vast production line of about 12 other atomic bombs was being readied for additional continuous strikes against other key targets.[/color]
[color=rgba(2, 20, 31, 0.85)]It was agreed this next bomb would be available to be dropped on August 19, with a schedule of further bombs available throughout September and October.[/color]



CWSooner

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2019, 09:24:42 PM »
Heh!  Good info, CD.
I'm not sure if "Fat Boy" is right, though.  It's my understanding that the term "Fat Man" was applied to all the Mark III plutonium bombs, including the two detonated in the Bikini Atoll tests of 1946.

Maybe "Fat Boy" is a typo in the Daily Beast article--a mashup of "Fat Man" and "Little Boy."
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2019, 07:02:14 AM »
Could be, I recall from the book "Enola Gay" (which is quite well done) that a third weapon was "on the way" and a dozen or so more were a few weeks off.  By that point, Hanford was in full production of Pu and it was a matter of machining and assembly.  A key was a device that could trigger conventional explosives very very close together, I forget the name of it now.  You need that for the implosion device.

The uranium device had never been tested of course, they were confident it would work as it was simple.

These bombs weighed 10,000 pounds and only the B-29 in our inventory could carry one.  I suppose the British Lancaster could carry the weight.

That remains an issue today with first generation atomic bombs, they tend to be heavy, perhaps 3,000 pounds, and you need a delivery system with that kind of capacity and range or it's almost useless.


Cincydawg

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2019, 08:18:42 AM »
https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/little-boy-and-fat-man

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Fission/Fission9.shtml



It's interesting, to me, with all the attention give to Iranian centrifuges and uranium enrichment, when the more efficient bombs are based on plutonium.  Note that uranium 238 is the most common isotope in nature.  Its very dense, and is used in sabot tank rounds to destroy other tanks.  These bombs were detonated at about a mile above ground level to produce the most destruction.  

Current US nuclear weapons are typically 8-10 x the explosive power of these weapons as they use a fusion device, which is triggered by a fission bomb, which is triggered using normal explosives.  An Ohio class submarine carries 24 missiles, each of which can carry up to ten of these warheads.  One sub could ruin an entire nation.




medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2019, 09:14:25 AM »
It would have been very tough getting the A-bombs, as well as all the supporting infrastructure, into China, Medina.
It definitely would have been difficult and maybe impossible.  I mentioned in one of these threads a while ago that I knew and took care of the yard of an old widow in my town whose husband had died "flying the hump" over the Himalayas from India into China.  

I don't remember the exact number but I read about those early bombing missions from Chinese airfields against Japan and it took something like 6 flights back-and-forth from India to China to gather enough supplies for one attack mission from China to Japan.  It was ridiculously inefficient.  

AFAIK, they never actually landed a B29 with an A-bomb aboard until long after WWII ended.  It might not have been possible and, if not, then there is almost no way that they could have launched an A-bomb raid from China because the bomb would have to have been flown in from India.  Worse, those Chinese airfields and the territory between them and India were in contested areas.  Can you imagine if they had flown an A-bomb into a Chinese airfield and then the airfield had been overrun by the Japanese?  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2019, 09:16:10 AM »
Weren't they out of the ingrediants/components for awhile?But no one but the Brass knew

that's what I remember

it would have taken a year or better to produce another bomb
CD already answered but this is incorrect.  When I visited the Trinity site (open two days a year, really neat to see), they told us that in late '45 the US was geared up to produce roughly one bomb per month.  

FearlessF

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2019, 09:21:27 AM »
could more information have come out after the early 80's when I took a history of WWII class at UNL?

probably just my poor memory
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CWSooner

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2019, 10:01:09 AM »
Could be, I recall from the book "Enola Gay" (which is quite well done) that a third weapon was "on the way" and a dozen or so more were a few weeks off.  By that point, Hanford was in full production of Pu and it was a matter of machining and assembly.  A key was a device that could trigger conventional explosives very very close together, I forget the name of it now.  You need that for the implosion device.

The uranium device had never been tested of course, they were confident it would work as it was simple.

These bombs weighed 10,000 pounds and only the B-29 in our inventory could carry one.  I suppose the British Lancaster could carry the weight.

That remains an issue today with first generation atomic bombs, they tend to be heavy, perhaps 3,000 pounds, and you need a delivery system with that kind of capacity and range or it's almost useless.
There's a good book about the Los Alamos operation titled 109 East Palace.  That was the address right off the Plaza in Santa Fe that was the "front office" for Los Alamos.  109 East Palace still exists.  It's a little shop that sells the sort of touristy stuff that other little shops around the Plaza also sell.
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CWSooner

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2019, 10:04:20 AM »
CD already answered but this is incorrect.  When I visited the Trinity site (open two days a year, really neat to see), they told us that in late '45 the US was geared up to produce roughly one bomb per month.
It is true, though, that after dropping the Nagasaki bomb, we did not have another one ready to go.  It would have been some weeks (a month or two?) before we could have dropped another one.
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MrNubbz

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Re: OT - Significant Battles in History
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2019, 10:09:42 AM »
could more information have come out after the early 80's when I took a history of WWII class at UNL?

probably just my poor memory
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