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Topic: Odds we have a football season poll

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FearlessF

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"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #519 on: August 16, 2020, 11:18:48 AM »
I don't see any translation needed. 

You keep saying the same thing over and over, but it's not exclusive to me, it's true for EVERYONE ON THE PLANET.

Yes, I think I'm right (just as you think you're right).  Yes, if I disagree with you, I think you're wrong (just as you think I'm wrong when you disagree with me). 

Just a bizarre criticism of me (ie - everyone on the planet).
I don’t think I am right.  That’s what you’re missing.

There are some things that we have the right to tell each other what to do like drinking and driving and walking up and shooting somebody in the head. There are other things that we probably don’t have the right to tell other people what to do.

for college kids who have worked and worked and worked and pointed towards playing football this season because it’s a humongous part of their life and their future, and their families, and their coaches, and they have The ability to opt in or out at any time.  Their voices should carry the most weight.  They are the ones who need to be right in a very personal choice. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

bayareabadger

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #520 on: August 16, 2020, 11:21:36 AM »
University of Michigan cardiologist Dr. Venk Murthy is questioning data used by the Big Ten to cancel its fall sports season. “It could be reasonable to cancel, just not on the basis of this paper which is highlighted extensively,” Murthy, professor of Preventive Cardiology at The UM Samuel and Jean Frankel Cardiovascular Center, tweeted in reference to a paper being relied upon by the Big Ten. Murthy and Darrel Francis, Professor of Cardiology at the National Heart and Lung Institute at Imperial College in London have laid out why the Big Ten shouldn’t be using the flawed paper as basis for cancellation.

The Murthy stuff is interesting. But Outkick is for the most part pandering trash. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #521 on: August 16, 2020, 11:22:54 AM »
So, is there an elevated health risk for any of my scenarios?

I see elevated legal risk in some of them obviously, one in particular, but health risk?

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #522 on: August 16, 2020, 11:24:28 AM »
If you acknowledge that there is a spectrum of opinions ranging from locking everything down until we are completely eradicate this thing to the other end which is completely open everything up and let it run its course, and everything in between, then you can have 1 million different opinions of where on that spectrum we belong.

And I have no idea what is the “right” answer because I couldn’t even vote where I place my “vote” until the following question gets answered:

What is the fucking goal? Is it to keep the curve flattened below our medical capacity? Or is it to have as few cases of Covid as is possible?

Speaking 100% non-politically, I could support either goal if it was clear what the goal actually is. But it’s not. I asked that very question on this forum weeks ago and could not get anything close to a straight answer. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #523 on: August 16, 2020, 11:31:56 AM »
The goal clearly is to get My Side elected.  Duh.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #524 on: August 16, 2020, 11:32:37 AM »
The goal clearly is to get My Side elected.  Duh.
😂. Well played 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

bayareabadger

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #525 on: August 16, 2020, 11:40:03 AM »



Now half of us say “ see”, when they got away from football they got corona and the other half say “see “ they are football players they got corona. LOL.  

Heh. This ain't wrong. It's not great my first thought when I saw one tweet was "there's going to be some qualifier that makes it seem not as bad in the first three replies."

I should clarify, I'm somewhat agnostic about if they should play or not. I probably poke at reasons to play more, maybe that says I have a secret bias (that Urban clip seemed like it needed some poking at). I'm somewhat doubtful they will play, just because a split season seems like a highly unlikely outcome, but the world has surprised me before.

In the end, it'll come down to school or conference's willingness/ability to weather some combination of 1. A player dying 2. A set of players seriously hospitalized 3. A spate of outbreaks that derail multiple camps or cancel multiple games. Obviously the risks are somewhat optical with a murky edge of liability. I think you brought up the counterfactual that we won't know (what if whatever didn't happen did), though it'll be hard for a school to argue that with a kid in the hospital. I'm guessing some schools would be up for it. I still think the ACC is vulnerable to some schools getting cold feet. 

Anyway, we'll see where things stand in six weeks. Lot to happen between now and then. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #526 on: August 16, 2020, 11:40:19 AM »
A rational goal would be to balance "risk and reward" and close down higher risk activities that are not severe penalties so as to keep hospitals up and running.

When I had my surgery, preop, I asked the nurses if they were operating back in March/April/May, and they said only for emergencies, broken bones that had to be reset etc.  They had shut down elective surgery, and they were prepared to take overruns from the main hospital and had been trained in PPE for COVID.

They never saw a patient.  This is an out patient surgical clinic that is part of a larger hospital complex (very large).  They were not very busy when we were there, the wife and then me.  

The Sweden experience is still very interesting to me and appears to be being over looked largely.  They kept their economy up pretty much and have managed to get deaths and infection rates way down now, after an early "crisis" that did not overwhelm their hospital capacity.

FearlessF

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #527 on: August 16, 2020, 11:44:28 AM »
The goal clearly is to get My Side elected.  Duh.
I think the new Big Ten commish, fumbled
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #528 on: August 16, 2020, 12:52:57 PM »
  They are the ones who need to be right in a very personal choice. 
This isn't a very personal choice, it's a very communicable disease.  That's the whole thing.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #529 on: August 16, 2020, 01:00:51 PM »
The Sweden experience is still very interesting to me and appears to be being over looked largely.  They kept their economy up pretty much and have managed to get deaths and infection rates way down now, after an early "crisis" that did not overwhelm their hospital capacity.
From what I've read, their economy didn't do any better than surrounding countries that shut down for a time.  

I really think it's a mistake to hold Sweden up as a model.  Say the U.S. did exactly what Sweden did - we'd have more deaths now than we've actually had.  

It makes me think the "look at Sweden" crowd are looking back and wishing we did nothing and viewing it as better than the reality of "let's mismange the hell out of this" like the U.S. has.  Regardless of who the president is, the lack of leadership/honesty from the top has been damning, period.  Yielding influence and citing 'state's rights' when it comes to a communicable disease is asinine.  If your mind jumps to "yeah, but there were regions barely affected", great, but those regions have airports, do they not?  And if they don't, great, they get a waiver.  That'd be a compromise, cool.

But the whole "a lack of any action > half-measures and incompetence" just doesn't do anything for me.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #530 on: August 16, 2020, 01:08:14 PM »
Anyone else doubting we really get a Spring season? Much less a Spring season AND a Fall season 2021? Two seasons in one calendar year being too much?


https://twitter.com/ESPNGainesville/status/1293366054400524288


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #531 on: August 16, 2020, 02:09:57 PM »
A rational goal would be to balance "risk and reward" and close down higher risk activities that are not severe penalties so as to keep hospitals up and running.
However, the problem is that each of us has different risks and different rewards.

As it relates to this particular question, for each individual player the "reward" is that they've put in tons of work to get where they are, some of them are trying to showcase their skills for the next level, and others just love the game and don't want the choice to play it taken from them. For those players, the "risk" is largely something they can EASILY put out of their mind, because they say "most people my age don't have ill effects from this virus."

For a University Board of Directors or an athletic conference as a whole, the "reward" is money, fan engagement, student engagement. The "risk" is getting pilloried in the media for making a wrong decision which leads to the death of one (or multiple) players, significant numbers of hospitalizations and/or long-term health problems, etc. Not to mention when that media criticism dovetails with already too many discussions about players being "exploited", the question of whether they should get paid when it's a multi-billion dollar industry, etc. 

For us as fans, the reward is the enjoyment we get from following our team. The risk is absolutely minimal--as devoted fans and supporters of our alma mater, we obviously don't want our own alma mater to be singled out for doing bad things. But beyond that, players potentially getting sick has very little effect on our lives in any way. 

In this case, the University BoD and the athletic conference big-wigs have the power to make a decision. The players don't. The fans don't. Neither group gets a vote. So, for better or worse, the university and conference officials' determination of the risk/reward balance is the controlling one.

 

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