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Topic: Odds we have a football season poll

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #294 on: August 10, 2020, 04:22:35 PM »
The bolded part interests me because it implies, as I read it, that we're sort of reducing it to taking risks is an act of being brave (or something akin to that).

But in reality, compartmentalizing risk isn't really an act of bravery. I went to a gathering 7 hours away with people from 3-4 different regions. It was in many ways risky on this front. But that doesn't make me brave. It makes me a person who pretends a risk isn't there. There are all sorts of moments like this, many that could be categorized as being irresponsible or reckless.

Now I'm not strongly saying little league is either of those last two things. But we often cast it as a case of doing a risky thing is a act with some nobility, and in a lot of cases, it really isn't.
The player are definitely not to blame. They want to play. It is the pencil necked geeks that run these institutions that are making this call.
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

DevilFroggy

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #295 on: August 10, 2020, 04:28:44 PM »
The optics are 100% why this season is almost assuredly cancelled.

Does it look bad for your school if their left tackle, cornerback, middle linebacker, and 2 wide receivers catch the virus at home or at school during a cancelled season? Not particularly, or very minimally at worst. But does it look back when their left tackle, cornerback, middle linebacker, and 2 wide receivers catch the virus immediately after a game when they possibly could have spread it to several more teammates and opposing players they just faced? Undeniably yes. I get Trevor Lawrence's POV that players are just as likely to catch it outside of CFB but when they're catching it in the middle of season suddenly these schools look like ghouls pushing these poor kids to play football just so make a few bucks. It's 100% optics.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #296 on: August 10, 2020, 05:08:14 PM »
The optics are 100% why this season is almost assuredly cancelled.

Does it look bad for your school if their left tackle, cornerback, middle linebacker, and 2 wide receivers catch the virus at home or at school during a cancelled season? Not particularly, or very minimally at worst. But does it look back when their left tackle, cornerback, middle linebacker, and 2 wide receivers catch the virus immediately after a game when they possibly could have spread it to several more teammates and opposing players they just faced? Undeniably yes. I get Trevor Lawrence's POV that players are just as likely to catch it outside of CFB but when they're catching it in the middle of season suddenly these schools look like ghouls pushing these poor kids to play football just so make a few bucks. It's 100% optics.
I don't. He talks about them going home and there won't be social distancing or masks, but whose damn fault is that? 

The truth is that within the game of football, you CANNOT protect against spread. You can't be 6 feet apart. You can't wear a mask and effectively play. So any positive case (even if missed by a test) is a significant risk to EVERY player on that field. 

At home, you control your risk. I've pointed out that a few times I've chosen to engage in behaviors with moderately more risk than staying home and only going out into society for absolute essentials. But I controlled those situations and whether I chose to engage in them or not. 

If he's arguing that players WON'T take precautions, that's not the fault of those who cancel football; it's the fault of those players not taking precautions. But the risk of being on a football field with an asymptomatic player is a LOT higher than the risk of encountering an asymptomatic grocery store employee stocking shelves who you stay several feet away from while you're wearing your mask. 

You simply don't have as much risk off the field as you do on it. 

(His other point about if you catch COVID as a player on campus that you'll have access to world-class medical care, which you may not have off campus, is valid and true though.)

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #297 on: August 10, 2020, 05:09:30 PM »
I should've said this earlier, but this was a deeply dumb generalization. There are lots of folks who want to watch CFB. There are lots of players who want to play and coaches who want to coach.

We can argue is someone should be a more responsible party (and we will), but to imagine a football player wanting to play football makes him the spokesman of some smaller group is just ridiculous.
That's probably what made it a joke.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #298 on: August 10, 2020, 05:09:52 PM »
The player are definitely not to blame. They want to play. It is the pencil necked geeks that run these institutions that are making this call.
Yes, the adults are stepping in.  Thankfully.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #299 on: August 10, 2020, 05:11:45 PM »
I want to teach in person.
It's not prudent to do so, so I teach online.
It sucks.

I want college football to happen.
It's not prudent, so they aren't playing this fall.
It sucks.

BUT I GET IT.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #300 on: August 10, 2020, 05:17:47 PM »
I don't. He talks about them going home and there won't be social distancing or masks, but whose damn fault is that?

The truth is that within the game of football, you CANNOT protect against spread. You can't be 6 feet apart. You can't wear a mask and effectively play. So any positive case (even if missed by a test) is a significant risk to EVERY player on that field.

At home, you control your risk. I've pointed out that a few times I've chosen to engage in behaviors with moderately more risk than staying home and only going out into society for absolute essentials. But I controlled those situations and whether I chose to engage in them or not.

If he's arguing that players WON'T take precautions, that's not the fault of those who cancel football; it's the fault of those players not taking precautions. But the risk of being on a football field with an asymptomatic player is a LOT higher than the risk of encountering an asymptomatic grocery store employee stocking shelves who you stay several feet away from while you're wearing your mask.

You simply don't have as much risk off the field as you do on it.

(His other point about if you catch COVID as a player on campus that you'll have access to world-class medical care, which you may not have off campus, is valid and true though.)
I think he meant on campus and in a structures fire. And chances are, that part is accurate. If you have a highly paid, professional staff building on you, your outcomes are most likely going to be better then a lot of the home situations here.

I wouldn’t speak to the actual playing football, that I just don’t know.

bayareabadger

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #301 on: August 10, 2020, 05:23:01 PM »
The optics are 100% why this season is almost assuredly cancelled.

Does it look bad for your school if their left tackle, cornerback, middle linebacker, and 2 wide receivers catch the virus at home or at school during a cancelled season? Not particularly, or very minimally at worst. But does it look back when their left tackle, cornerback, middle linebacker, and 2 wide receivers catch the virus immediately after a game when they possibly could have spread it to several more teammates and opposing players they just faced? Undeniably yes. I get Trevor Lawrence's POV that players are just as likely to catch it outside of CFB but when they're catching it in the middle of season suddenly these schools look like ghouls pushing these poor kids to play football just so make a few bucks. It's 100% optics.
I think that percentage is a bit high. Optics are a lot of it, but not 100%. There’s going to be some measure of liability. Perhaps you are accounting for them potentially insulating themselves from that, which I suppose just ramps up the liability front because you’re having people do you do not allow to have legal representation sign rather complicated documents. I guess that would make it optics, but a particularly bad sort of optics.

Also, The four starters and catch it after a game or bad press. When a couple kids die after catching it again, that’s where everything goes off the rails.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #302 on: August 10, 2020, 05:56:08 PM »
The bolded part interests me because it implies, as I read it, that we're sort of reducing it to taking risks is an act of being brave (or something akin to that).

But in reality, compartmentalizing risk isn't really an act of bravery. I went to a gathering 7 hours away with people from 3-4 different regions. It was in many ways risky on this front. But that doesn't make me brave. It makes me a person who pretends a risk isn't there. There are all sorts of moments like this, many that could be categorized as being irresponsible or reckless.

Now I'm not strongly saying little league is either of those last two things. But we often cast it as a case of doing a risky thing is a act with some nobility, and in a lot of cases, it really isn't.


                         
How many other activities do you participate in where routine risk is treated as afterthought? Food poisoning from a restaurant? Rush hour driving? Receiving anesthetics for surgery? Leaving the Christmas lights on overnight? Drinking year after year? Going into the office during a flu season.

College football aside, too many of us are allowing COVID, and only COVID, to exploit our fear of death at the risk of putting our economic futures in severe jeopardy.                                 


DevilFroggy

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #303 on: August 10, 2020, 06:10:54 PM »

                         
How many other activities do you participate in where routine risk is treated as afterthought? Food poisoning from a restaurant? Rush hour driving? Receiving anesthetics for surgery? Leaving the Christmas lights on overnight? Drinking year after year? Going into the office during a flu season.

College football aside, too many of us are allowing COVID, and only COVID, to exploit our fear of death at the risk of putting our economic futures in severe jeopardy.                                 




I agree to an extent but there's a significant difference between COVID vs car accidents and food poisoning that makes our behavioral changes for COVID more sensible...

COVID is contagious. Car accidents and food poisoning are not.
I thought I settled my debts that night on the ride home
But I have still got hell to pay

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #304 on: August 10, 2020, 06:16:36 PM »
Yes, the adults are stepping in.  Thankfully.
Technically I suppose they are adults in the sense that they are human beings who are more than 18 years removed from the birth canal. But their mentality, like yours, is rather childish; clinging the lofty ideologies of a college freshman, well into "adulthood."
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #305 on: August 10, 2020, 06:25:38 PM »
Technically I suppose they are adults in the sense that they are human beings who are more than 18 years removed from the birth canal. But their mentality, like yours, is rather childish; clinging the lofty ideologies of a college freshman, well into "adulthood."
Yeah, backwards.  Again.  

You're labeling it childish to do the responsible thing instead of the thing they want to do.  The hell??
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #306 on: August 10, 2020, 06:28:03 PM »


I don't blame Nebraska if they go back to the Big 12 over this. I'm no attorney obviously, but there has to be some sort of breach of contract here. 

At the very least, they didn't know that they were signing up for a co-ed league, when they put their name on the dotted line. O0
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

bayareabadger

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Re: Odds we have a football season poll
« Reply #307 on: August 10, 2020, 06:36:16 PM »

                         
How many other activities do you participate in where routine risk is treated as afterthought? Food poisoning from a restaurant? Rush hour driving? Receiving anesthetics for surgery? Leaving the Christmas lights on overnight? Drinking year after year? Going into the office during a flu season.

College football aside, too many of us are allowing COVID, and only COVID, to exploit our fear of death at the risk of putting our economic futures in severe jeopardy.                                 


I'd argue that someone doing all those things does not make a person particularly brave either. If I say, I don't eat at restaurants because I think the food is badly handled (probably), someone who accepts that risk is not made of sterner stuff. 

We could expand it further. Most people who drive 100 MPH don't actually put people in danger. Most people who drive drunk don't hurt anyone or themselves. They are not brave for doing it. 

In the end, I'm only arguing that a letting your kid ride a bus across the state to play some baseball doesn't make you sterner than college football players. 

(TBH, the way I drive is probably super irresponsible. My drinking at points was. I guess I am the sterner stuff)

 

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