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Topic: Michigan State (2-1) vs. Notre Dame (3-1) Post Game
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ELA · « **Reply #28 on:** September 24, 2017, 12:44:36 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 24, 2017, 11:22:57 AM

0-3 in turn overs for MSU. You don't win many games against decent opponents with that stat.

It's usually the determining factor. MSU outgained them by 150 yards, had more first downs and dominated TOP...and lost by 20.

Particularly when the three turnovers are so directly linked to scores. You have a pick six. A fumble recovery that sets Notre Dame up inside the red zone. A fumble inside the 1 going in for a score. They directly linked to 21 points of swing. They also had an 80 yard drive end in a turnover on downs.

Granted at this point MSU has allowed four non offensive TDs in 3 games, and had two fumbles inside the one. So it's hard for me to say, "if not for the high leverage turnovers" when after three games that simply appears to be a part of who they are, not some one game fluke.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #29 on:** September 24, 2017, 12:59:53 PM »

Very few teams overcome that 3-0 margin. Obviously, an "OSU" could do that playing "Akron", but not in anything reasonably competitive. I view TOs are about 85% random events. A team that pressures the passer and has aggressive DBs will get more INTs than "average", but fumbles often are just helmet meets ball. Even strips are somewhat random when you consider the recovery probability.

ND might be better than MSU, but not by what the score would suggest IMHO. ND has an interesting schedule I think. Miami (OH) and @UNC, and then USC, NC State, Wake, @Miami, Navy, @ Stanford. They should be 5-1 going into the USC game, which could be interesting. I've said from the start that NC State should be a solid team. They dropped the opener to USCe on turnovers then beat FSU at FSU. I don't know how good Miami may be.

A 10-2 ND probably gets a NY6 bowl berth.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #30 on:** September 24, 2017, 01:04:08 PM »

Quote from: ELA on September 24, 2017, 12:44:36 PM

It's usually the determining factor. MSU outgained them by 150 yards, had more first downs and dominated TOP...and lost by 20.

Particularly when the three turnovers are so directly linked to scores. You have a pick six. A fumble recovery that sets Notre Dame up inside the red zone. A fumble inside the 1 going in for a score. They directly linked to 21 points of swing. They also had an 80 yard drive end in a turnover on downs.

Granted at this point MSU has allowed four non offensive TDs in 3 games, and had two fumbles inside the one. So it's hard for me to say, "if not for the high leverage turnovers" when after three games that simply appears to be a part of who they are, not some one game fluke.

How many of those MSU yards were garbage time yards when the game was clearly over?
LJ Scott is so talented, but he's never corrected his case of fumbilitis. It's just who he is at this point as a JR. If he ever fixed that and got his head on straight he's a 1st or 2nd round pick. He's as talented a big back as you'll see.
Lewerke is a dangerous player- for his team and the other team. He's capable of making huge plays for his team but he's also capable of making huge plays for the other team. I don't know if that's due to his youth and inexperience or if that's just who he is. I really like his raw ability and talent- his size, arm strength, and mobility are all very good- but he's got to be more careful with that football.

ELA · « **Reply #31 on:** September 24, 2017, 01:24:05 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 24, 2017, 01:04:08 PM

How many of those MSU yards were garbage time yards when the game was clearly over?
LJ Scott is so talented, but he's never corrected his case of fumbilitis. It's just who he is at this point as a JR. If he ever fixed that and got his head on straight he's a 1st or 2nd round pick. He's as talented a big back as you'll see.
Lewerke is a dangerous player- for his team and the other team. He's capable of making huge plays for his team but he's also capable of making huge plays for the other team. I don't know if that's due to his youth and inexperience or if that's just who he is. I really like his raw ability and talent- his size, arm strength, and mobility are all very good- but he's got to be more careful with that football.

MSU outgained them by 80 in the 4th quarter and outscored them by 5.

So to outgain then by 150 and lose by 20, or outgain them by 70 and be down by 25, I don't get what your argument is.

Typically you lose the turnover battle, particularly decisively, and when those three turnovers are about as directly linked to 21 points as it gets, the other stats are totally irrelevant. That was all I said.

Also the Scott fumbling issue is new. He had 3 lost fumbles in his first two years combined, now 4 in 3 games this year, two inside the 1 yard line. Something is in his head.

PortlandSpartan · « **Reply #32 on:** September 25, 2017, 01:32:30 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on September 24, 2017, 12:59:53 PM

ND might be better than MSU, but not by what the score would suggest IMHO.

That's how I left the game. I'm more than willing to submit that ND is better, but if that's the case it's not by much.
MSU can still be a very solid team if they start to clean up fixable mistakes. Stuff like lining up off-sides on a 3rd and 1 more so than the LJ fumble. While its super frustrating it popped and even more frustrating that he didn't fall on it, the ND player had a great punch on it there. The two Lewerke turnovers are very fixable.

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Topic: Michigan State (2-1) vs. Notre Dame (3-1) Post Game

ELA

Re: Michigan State (2-0) vs. Notre Dame (2-1) Game Week

Cincydawg

Re: Michigan State (2-0) vs. Notre Dame (2-1) Game Week

Mdot21

Re: Michigan State (2-0) vs. Notre Dame (2-1) Game Week

ELA

Re: Michigan State (2-0) vs. Notre Dame (2-1) Game Week

PortlandSpartan

Re: Michigan State (2-0) vs. Notre Dame (2-1) Game Week