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Topic: List of players sitting out their bowl game

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MaximumSam

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #112 on: December 12, 2018, 04:25:17 PM »
So you're telling me that college football would bottom out without players like Noah Fant or Rashan Gary? You do understand that about 2% of all FBS players get drafted each year, no? Last year there were 256 players taken in the NFL draft. That makes 192 players. There are 130 schools in FBS, and each has 85 scholarships to hand out. That's 11,050 players.
And you're calling mine a (bad) argument?
The many, many labor disputes in professional sports gives a good indicator of what the players are worth.  In the NFL that's a shade less than half.  Iowa athletics brought in about 115 million bucks in revenue last year.  So the math says about 55 million bucks should go to the athletes.

847badgerfan

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #113 on: December 12, 2018, 04:41:52 PM »
The many, many labor disputes in professional sports gives a good indicator of what the players are worth.  In the NFL that's a shade less than half.  Iowa athletics brought in about 115 million bucks in revenue last year.  So the math says about 55 million bucks should go to the athletes.
Iowa has 650 athletes in school. That comes to about $85K per year, per athlete. 

Seems to be a little less than what they are getting right now, with tuition, materials, room and board, nutrition, training, tutoring, travel, clothing and cost of attendance all factored in.

So, it's all good then.
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MaximumSam

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #114 on: December 12, 2018, 05:07:21 PM »
Iowa has 650 athletes in school. That comes to about $85K per year, per athlete.

Seems to be a little less than what they are getting right now, with tuition, materials, room and board, nutrition, training, tutoring, travel, clothing and cost of attendance all factored in.

So, it's all good then.
Iowa's in state tuition is 8000 bucks.  That adds up to 5.2 million bucks.  Their budget list about 2 million each for "training services" and "academic and counseling."  It's not clear what they are spending on room and board - probably not much but lets say 10 million.  We get to about 20 million, which means Iowa is shorting its athletes 35 million in cash.  (Actually 55 million in cash)

ELA

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2018, 05:30:29 PM »
FWIW, Iowa itself lists full cost of attendance as $24,464 in state; $46,430 out of state.

I picked two sports at random; baseball, and womens soccer.  Baseball had 22 of 35 in state (63%); but soccer was only 9 of 29 (31%).  Let's just for the sake of argument say half of their athletes are in state.

So that total actually comes out to about $23 million.  But it's not that simple, because that's assuming all 650 athletes are on full scholarship, and that's not even close to the case.  I find it hard to believe they spend $2 million on training, I would guess it to be much higher than that.  Then there's things you can't put a price on, so long story short, it's not a thing you can probably just calculate.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 05:32:02 PM by ELA »

847badgerfan

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #116 on: December 12, 2018, 06:15:11 PM »
Think about food, rent, clothing, etc. All the things I listed.


Then think about what a tutor costs. After that, think about what a training program costs.


I pay $65/hour for a trainer. If I trained 2 hours per day, 5 days per week, that would cost $34K per year.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #117 on: December 12, 2018, 06:24:34 PM »
The only solution would be a minor league system, which the NFL would never pay for as they already get to use the NCAA for free. 

If it ever did happen it would essentially turn FBS into D3, which we already have and nobody watches. 
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #118 on: December 12, 2018, 06:31:32 PM »
Iowa has 650 athletes in school. That comes to about $85K per year, per athlete.

Seems to be a little less than what they are getting right now, with tuition, materials, room and board, nutrition, training, tutoring, travel, clothing and cost of attendance all factored in.

So, it's all good then.
I'm not sure you are being serious. "If we pay the football players then we also have to pay the swimmers and tennis players the same" is rarely a real argument. It's just a thing people say if they oppose paying the football players and want to grasp at every remaining straw before the conversation ends. Because that's not how capitalism works.
If you are being serious -- and as a businessman who likes capitalism I doubt it again -- only those players participating in revenue sports are likely to have any market value, let alone large market value. So failing to compensate revenue athletes is the only injustice. If the NCAA were to wave its wand and let every athlete collect on his/her own market value, the Power 5 football and basketball players are the *only* ones who'd absolutely receive more than they get now. Depending on the school, some baseball and hockey teams would add into that.
So your math (your denominator) is off by ~500 students.

Using Sam's reasoning about sports labor disputes: Iowa's 35 to 55 million should be split among its 120 or football and basketball players, perhaps adding in the baseball roster, if they turn a revenue that exceeds expenditure. Each athlete gets its per capita share of half of what its sport earned. If your sport's figure -- [team revenue] divided by [player number] is greater than another sport's figure -- plain text capitalism will have us paying you proportionately more.

MaximumSam

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #119 on: December 12, 2018, 06:34:33 PM »
Think about food, rent, clothing, etc. All the things I listed.


Then think about what a tutor costs. After that, think about what a training program costs.


I pay $65/hour for a trainer. If I trained 2 hours per day, 5 days per week, that would cost $34K per year.
Tell your employees that you will cut their pay by 35K and instead provide personal training and get back to me on how they feel about that

847badgerfan

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2018, 06:37:28 PM »
Tell your employees that you will cut their pay by 35K and instead provide personal training and get back to me on how they feel about that
My employees don't require personal training to perform their craft, so that argument is silly. I do provide up to $50/month for gym membership though.
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MrNubbz

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2018, 06:37:42 PM »
I'd love for the NCAA to shove it up the NFL's ass.The Nfl has shoved it up Clevelands,Baltimores,Oaklands,San Diegos & St Loius's ass along with the average paying customer.If they can throw 49 million per to that pathetic pedant Goodall's way - that name is a damnable misnomer,they can pay for player development.Or simply throw the the funds needed to do so the Universities way
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2018, 06:38:20 PM »
So you're telling me that college football would bottom out without players like Noah Fant or Rashan Gary? You do understand that about 2% of all FBS players get drafted each year, no? Last year there were 256 players taken in the NFL draft. That makes 192 players. There are 130 schools in FBS, and each has 85 scholarships to hand out. That's 11,050 players.
And you're calling mine a (bad) argument?
I'm telling you that if P5 football were to have zero NFL or maybe NFL athletes, and the product quality were lowered to Go5 or Ivy level, the market value for P5 revenue sports would plummet. It's takes no leap of faith to say that current television contracts and ticket sales would not survive in that environment.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 06:49:17 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2018, 06:44:41 PM »
The many, many labor disputes in professional sports gives a good indicator of what the players are worth.  In the NFL that's a shade less than half.  Iowa athletics brought in about 115 million bucks in revenue last year.  So the math says about 55 million bucks should go to the athletes.
This is an important post, in terms of anchoring us with real world numbers. Taking those numbers (something between $35MM and $55MM) and dividing by scholarship football (85) and basketball (13) players gives you something between $357,000 and $561,000, on average, per Iowa revenue athlete.
Whether they'd deserve the high or low end is dependent on the value of Iowa's other services (for revenue athletes only). It's also contingent on more athletes not being lumped in (do any other Iowa sports have revenue exceeding expenditure - baseball?).
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 06:56:20 PM by Anonymous Coward »

847badgerfan

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2018, 06:52:34 PM »
I don't for a minute believe that true fans of college football would back away from the games if the NFL had a minor league and took 250 players away from the college game every year. True fans cheer for the helmet and jersey, not the specific players.
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847badgerfan

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #125 on: December 12, 2018, 06:54:10 PM »
This is an important post, in terms of anchoring us with real world numbers.
Those are not even close to real world numbers.
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