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Topic: List of players sitting out their bowl game

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847badgerfan

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2018, 08:12:09 AM »
I hate that this discussion ALWAYS goes into paying the players. ELA, you said it. A kid getting $10K to peddle used cars doesn't prevent him from sitting out. If the deal stipulates that the kid must play, well, that opens a whole different can.


You play for the team and school you joined, period. The team that help you by catching or throwing a pass, a block, etc. The school that made you what you are, with support, elite training, special diets designed by professionals, etc. Not playing after receiving all of that, in addition to an education, is just selfish.
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ELA

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #99 on: December 12, 2018, 08:20:20 AM »
I agree it's self serving.  I don't know if that's a bad thing.  I don't have stronger moral opposition to this than I do to coaches jumping ship on kids they made promises to.

I just know as a fan I hate it.  Which I suppose makes me selfish too, ha.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2018, 10:43:27 AM »
I hate that this discussion ALWAYS goes into paying the players. ELA, you said it. A kid getting $10K to peddle used cars doesn't prevent him from sitting out. If the deal stipulates that the kid must play, well, that opens a whole different can.


You play for the team and school you joined, period. The team that help you by catching or throwing a pass, a block, etc. The school that made you what you are, with support, elite training, special diets designed by professionals, etc. Not playing after receiving all of that, in addition to an education, is just selfish.
You greatly overestimate the value of what the players get relative to what they are worth. And the conversation goes here because that explains the phenomenon. It's the reason why players don't rampantly sit out even more dangerous NFL games to stay healthy. Because they're already earning a living for one (less vulnerable to financial ruin) and that train ends if they sit to avoid injury (have full incentive).
The college players have neither. The are doing the thing you hate *because* the NCAA is a crook. Of course, you spend a lot of time wanting the NCAA to be this kind of crook (prevent players' access to market value) and that also paints your perspective.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 11:16:37 AM by Anonymous Coward »

Cincydawg

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2018, 10:50:38 AM »
I agree it's self serving.  I don't know if that's a bad thing.  I don't have stronger moral opposition to this than I do to coaches jumping ship on kids they made promises to.

I just know as a fan I hate it.  Which I suppose makes me selfish too, ha.
Yes, humans are selfish, or act in their own self interest most of the time.  There is nothing wrong with it inherently unless you harm other humans in doing that.
I also dislike the practice, but as a father I would lean to it were it my son involved.
We'd all prefer the sport be "clean" but it simply isn't.  I'm surprised it's as clean as it is frankly.
It doesn't take to much effort to ignore or minimize what is ugly about it.

MaximumSam

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2018, 12:02:23 PM »
FYI I get really rankled about this from the players' perspective.  The "Camping World" Bowl is run by Florida Citrus Sports.  As far as I can tell, their existence is to run this game and the Citrus Bowl.  Their stated mission is to:

"Our vision is to become the bowl industry leader in generating economic and exposure impact, providing the best customer experience and to establish Orlando as the nation’s premier neutral site/venue for sports events."

Their board looks to be several Orlando businessmen. They have a staff of 28 fulltime employees.  I googled their non-profit statement and found a website which stated their yearly revenue was 4.6 million dollars.  They listed their CEO as working 10 hours a week and pulling a salary of 464K.  Their CFO works 10 hours a week and make 157K.  They have a "Chief Customer Officer" who works 8 hours a week and makes 146K.

How is this possible?  How can someone work 10 hours a week and make nearly half a million dollars?  IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE PLAYERS FOR THEIR WORK.  Money is still being generated, it's just going to some other douchebag who didn't earn it.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2018, 12:09:25 PM »
LeVeon Bell gave up $14 million guaranteed this year to avoid risking injury to cost him $40 million+
Le'Veon also had a bit of an axe to grind. It was clear what he wanted: a long-term contract with guaranteed money. Pittsburgh doesn't have a history of doing much of that. 
Le'Veon should have been in free agency prior to the 2017 season. He was not "under contract" with the Steelers. They used the Franchise Tag to keep him exclusive, didn't give him an acceptable long-term contract, and then basically ran him into the ground with 400 touches without any long-term guarantee. Granted, he did make $12M for the 2017 season, but I think he wanted the right to negotiate a contract outside of Pittsburgh.
Then in 2018, Pittsburgh did the same thing, even though Bell said he didn't want to play under the tag a second year without a long-term contract, and would consider sitting out the season or even retiring. Pittsburgh again gave him a contract with very little guarantee, so he didn't sign it, and they gave all indication of wanting to run him into the ground a second year in a row without long-term compensation. 
I think part of what Bell did was to save his body for the future contract. But another portion of it was IMHO to prove a point. He wanted to highlight that the Franchise Tag allowed the teams to basically force a player into playing on THEIR terms, when that player should rightly be in free agency. He was as much making an economic calculation for the future as he was throwing up a gigantic middle finger to the Steelers organization and the NFL for creating a system where he was effectively being forced into their way or the highway. He chose the highway. 

Entropy

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2018, 12:22:51 PM »
another option.... a new break in FCS Div 1 football...   Teams/conferences that want to pay players create a new division and basically become the minors for the NFL... not tied in the way MLB is tied, but rather, you're main purpose is to play football and get paid.   School is secondary.  

Others programs, who want academics first, can create their own division and TV contracts.   

Anonymous Coward

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2018, 01:07:13 PM »
FYI I get really rankled about this from the players' perspective.  The "Camping World" Bowl is run by Florida Citrus Sports.  As far as I can tell, their existence is to run this game and the Citrus Bowl.  Their stated mission is to:

"Our vision is to become the bowl industry leader in generating economic and exposure impact, providing the best customer experience and to establish Orlando as the nation’s premier neutral site/venue for sports events."

Their board looks to be several Orlando businessmen. They have a staff of 28 fulltime employees.  I googled their non-profit statement and found a website which stated their yearly revenue was 4.6 million dollars.  They listed their CEO as working 10 hours a week and pulling a salary of 464K.  Their CFO works 10 hours a week and make 157K.  They have a "Chief Customer Officer" who works 8 hours a week and makes 146K.

How is this possible?  How can someone work 10 hours a week and make nearly half a million dollars?  IT'S BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE PLAYERS FOR THEIR WORK.  Money is still being generated, it's just going to some other douchebag who didn't earn it.

Fucking yup.

847badgerfan

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #106 on: December 12, 2018, 01:11:04 PM »
Without Iowa (or any other P5 school), Noah Fant is "worth" $_.



Someone fill that in for me.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #107 on: December 12, 2018, 01:15:56 PM »
another option.... a new break in FCS Div 1 football...   Teams/conferences that want to pay players create a new division and basically become the minors for the NFL... not tied in the way MLB is tied, but rather, you're main purpose is to play football and get paid.   School is secondary.  

Others programs, who want academics first, can create their own division and TV contracts.  
It's definitely an option but more destructive/less clean (would involve every P5 conference splitting in pieces). It also pretends that the only way for players to be paid is for the ADs to cut checks. Maybe that's not what you meant, but that's how it seemed as written ("...teams/conferences that want to pay the players...").

Entropy

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #108 on: December 12, 2018, 01:16:58 PM »
yes..  Schools cut the checks.   Basically, it's a minor league affiliated with a college.   It would also break conferences.

But at this point, I believe the payments are being made by many programs (boosters, not schools).   Might as well formalize it and let the field become level.  

Anonymous Coward

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #109 on: December 12, 2018, 01:24:06 PM »
Without Iowa (or any other P5 school), Noah Fant is "worth" $_.



Someone fill that in for me.
His value without Iowa is certainly more than zero but I'll admit it's less than his worth with Iowa's fan base loving him. This is a shit argument, though. Because if the every Noah Fant skipped out on every Iowa and the playing level were lowered so that you or the average fit undergrad were to replace Noah on the roster, the value of Iowa's football program would bottom out.
The current P5 players and programs depend on one other both ways but fair compensation only moves one way.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 06:09:19 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #110 on: December 12, 2018, 01:34:31 PM »
yes..  Schools cut the checks.   Basically, it's a minor league affiliated with a college.   It would also break conferences.

But at this point, I believe the payments are being made by many programs (boosters, not schools).   Might as well formalize it and let the field become level.  
But schools never need to cut checks for players to receive their full market value. Just let the players collect whatever money they can in meetings or on the street and they'll fully acquire their market value without a single member of the AD needing to lose his job or chop his bloated salary. 

847badgerfan

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Re: List of players sitting out their bowl game
« Reply #111 on: December 12, 2018, 02:11:13 PM »
His value without Iowa is certainly more than zero but I'll admit it's less than his worth with Iowa's fan base loving him. This is a shit argument, though. Because if the every Noah Fant skipped out on every Iowa and the playing level were lowered so that you or the average fit undergrad were could replace Noah on the roster, the value of Iowa's football program would bottom out.
The current P5 players and programs depend on one other both ways but fair compensation only moves one way.
So you're telling me that college football would bottom out without players like Noah Fant or Rashan Gary? You do understand that about 2% of all FBS players get drafted each year, no? Last year there were 256 players taken in the NFL draft. That makes 192 players. There are 130 schools in FBS, and each has 85 scholarships to hand out. That's 11,050 players.
And you're calling mine a (bad) argument?
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