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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #602 on: August 18, 2018, 03:39:06 PM »
This is a fascinating part of this because I'd argue, in our hearts, we really usually don't want to know the truth.
In a post farther back, you lashed out at an "unbalanced" report, the balance of which can be discussed within the confines of journalistic balance and what balance means when someone's not talking at a later point. But we know the truth isn't balanced. If a pregnant woman got bounced off a wall, that it was charged or not has only a slight bearing on if it happened. Truth is something that did or didn't happen. They're both crazy and tie goes to this is overblown isn't a question of truth.
In the end, there are many truths we don't and won't know. So we fill in, often with our own biases or what we'd like it to be.
And in a larger sense, we really don't want truth. The truth is, large portions of the coaches and players we root for are truly unpleasant people. They are powerful, ultracompetitive and often came up in situations of being emotionally coddled and allow to get away with things. I doubt Zach Smith's boorish and fireable behavior is deeply rare (maybe rare to that complete degree). But we whitewash it because we like liking this sport, and thinking too hard about it can make that hard. The man who built my team to prominence was an enormous egomaniacal jerk, and his replacement was petulant, sometimes immature and always rumored to be making s drunken mess of himself. They made the team do the things I wanted and it was never so egregious, so I made peace with it. To a degree, lord knows we did with Urbs, we all do.
I can only speak for myself, not the “we” you frequently throw out there.
I DO want to know what Meyer’s role in this was, very specifically.  I KNOW what I would do in certain situations, but not all. If he had certain, irrefutable information and did not do the right things about it, I would feel strongly he should be held accountable.
As others have said, if he is hypocritical on this topic of hitting women- again assuming there was certainty about that.....bye bye.
As for balanced reporting - I copied this from another article:
I'll refer to Society of Professional Journalism's Code of Ethics: 1) Balance the public’s need for information against potential harm or discomfort. Pursuit of the news is not a license for arrogance or undue intrusiveness. 2) Avoid pandering to lurid curiosity, even if others do.

If you think the crap McMurphy is spewing is even remotely relevant to this investigation of Meyer and OSU, than we just flat out are in opposite worlds. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #603 on: August 18, 2018, 03:49:08 PM »
(1) It's not reasonable to believe that Urban's responsibilities here shouldn't activate unless the info he received was exactly "irrefutable." That burden of proof is far higher than "beyond a reasonable doubt." Zeroing in on that word, saying he's off if the evidence wasn't purely irrefutable, insulates you, no matter what we realistically learn this week, from ever having to change your mind.

(2) Some people are defending Smith and some don't think he should have been fired. Reporting about his sleeping with staff, photoing his genitalia, etc. is directly relevant to each of those items. 

(2a) It continues to go to character (he is alleged to have very *frequently* engaged creepy and trashy behaviors). 
(2b) It also strengthens the case that he stopped deserving his job years ago.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 03:52:04 PM by Anonymous Coward »

MrNubbz

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #604 on: August 18, 2018, 04:22:38 PM »
By the end of the day, 2015 became more widely circulated news. And OSU quickly fired Smith within 60 minutes of McMurphy's second report that day (still before Urban ever took the podium).
It was my understanding from everything read,what % is accurate is yet to be determined,that Admn(Gene Smith?) knew about 2015 & '18.Zach's firing skids could have already been greased and happen to coincide with Media Days,press releases.I don't know how Urban couldn't know about it unless because charges previously hadn't been filed & police reports sealed they felt no need to tell him.I'm thinking Gene and Urban get shown the door.I pisses me off that URBZ could walk away with a healthy payday.Again though this is about Urbz/Ath.Dept's inaction more than Courtney playing victim.She has been proven a liar(abou Earle Bruce) and did indeed play the system for more coin.Screaming wolf only when the well run dry
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 04:27:12 PM by MrNubbz »
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #605 on: August 18, 2018, 04:31:41 PM »
It's true. The timing with the McMurphy piece could have been a coincidence. Or, even if the OSU brass already knew, the McMurphy report could merely have been the thing that brought enough negative PR to force them to act (fire Zach).

HailHailMSP

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #606 on: August 18, 2018, 04:52:07 PM »
I could have done without the $2,000 in adult toys being delivered to the football offices. He’s a creepy dude, that needs to be removed from society, but we knew that before this.

However, if evidence or a video comes available of an assistant football coach, already embroiled in a major scandal btw, sleeping with a subordinate admin assistant in the football offices, that’s a reportable story 100x out of 100.

It also sounds like this was another individual that shared this info, not Courtney Smith. Zach Smith ripped through Columbus like an F5 tornado for a decade. Now that the doors have blown open, people are lining up to share what they have.

Who knew what when is for the investigative body to figure out, but for the time being Zach Smith is public enemy #1, not McMurphy. 

Screaming fake news, calling McMurphy a “POS”, and mocking Michigan for whatever they finished last year in the West is the wrong place to direct your anger on here


MrNubbz

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #607 on: August 18, 2018, 05:18:39 PM »
this from Jeff Snook's facebook

But back to Herman.

He realized Sunday that he had to admit giving Courtney Smith money, which turned out to be $10,000 (even after staring into the cameras two weeks ago and stating he knew nothing of anything going on at Ohio State ‘because we weren’t there in 2015”) and yet, many actually still believed his denial.

And for the record, in the many subsequent messages to and from Michelle Herman since, I have demanded that her husband retract his denial and do the right thing and admit the truth.

I know he won’t, because he has too much at stake to admit the truth now. But he isn’t realizing one more thing: When the investigative committee releases every ounce of its findings, and his name is mentioned, he made a mistake by not admitting the truth and getting out in front of it ahead of time...

The Hermans had an ax to grind only with Zach Smith, as far as I can tell, and had to be shocked beyond belief when Meyer’s role became questioned and he was placed on leave. Smith and Herman, once very close from 2012-14, had a bad falling out since Herman left Ohio State. The wives, however, were very close and remain close.

Still, Michelle Herman told me this Tuesday about Courtney Smith via Messenger:

“She never told me she was being abused. She never told anyone she was being abused. Nobody saw any abuse.”

That, in essence, covered her husband’s responsibility toward his Title IX responsibilities while at Ohio State.

She went on to describe her relationship with Courtney Smith:

“We were close. I am not saying we weren’t close. We just weren’t that close while we were there. I wouldn’t call her my best friend, either.”

So why give her a substantial amount of money in 2017 (three years after the Hermans left Columbus)?

“When she needed to borrow money, she was drowning in debt and going to drop out of school. I said ‘that’s a bad idea. Then what will you do?’ I said, ‘Why don’t you let me loan you the money? I mean, it’s not going to hurt us.’ We loan people money all the time. Sometimes, we just give it to them.”

This also
I have reported that both Courtney Smith’s own mother and her ex-mother-in-law (Zach Smith’s mother) each have labeled her a habitual liar who was executing a pre-planned scheme to take down her ex-husband, and Meyer, himself. She spoke of it often, they said. They also claimed she was the one who committed domestic violence, with first-hand accounts.
*Consistent with their claims, the Powell police department never arrested Zach Smith despite Courtney Smith’s numerous 911 calls. No district attorney in Delaware County ever filed charges.*
Tina Carano, Courtney’s mother, described an incident in which her daughter purposely tried to run over her ex-husband with her car in the summer of 2015 in front of their two children. Zach Smith confirmed this as well. She also said her daughter has a drinking problem and “needs professional help.”
What say you, ESPN?
Crickets.
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #608 on: August 18, 2018, 07:34:39 PM »
(1) It's not reasonable to believe that Urban's responsibilities here shouldn't activate unless the info he received was exactly "irrefutable." That burden of proof is far higher than "beyond a reasonable doubt." Zeroing in on that word, saying he's off if the evidence wasn't purely irrefutable, insulates you, no matter what we realistically learn this week, from ever having to change your mind.

(2) Some people are defending Smith and some don't think he should have been fired. Reporting about his sleeping with staff, photoing his genitalia, etc. is directly relevant to each of those items.

(2a) It continues to go to character (he is alleged to have very *frequently* engaged creepy and trashy behaviors).
(2b) It also strengthens the case that he stopped deserving his job years ago.
So, see Nubzz post above about the very different versions.  You have multiple people saying Courtney spoke often of brining Meyer down, and being very violent herself. It appears, and I acknowledge this is not fact, the police were not inclined to press charges.
Now I agree with you about the “black and white” of irrefutable being a high standard.
But if OSU investigated the 15 incident and got wildly varying versions of what if anything happened, and the police would only tell them the evidence does not support her claims, I am not sure you could ask OSU to do much, and certainly not Meyer.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #609 on: August 18, 2018, 07:36:58 PM »
I could have done without the $2,000 in adult toys being delivered to the football offices. He’s a creepy dude, that needs to be removed from society, but we knew that before this.

However, if evidence or a video comes available of an assistant football coach, already embroiled in a major scandal btw, sleeping with a subordinate admin assistant in the football offices, that’s a reportable story 100x out of 100.

It also sounds like this was another individual that shared this info, not Courtney Smith. Zach Smith ripped through Columbus like an F5 tornado for a decade. Now that the doors have blown open, people are lining up to share what they have.

Who knew what when is for the investigative body to figure out, but for the time being Zach Smith is public enemy #1, not McMurphy.

Screaming fake news, calling McMurphy a “POS”, and mocking Michigan for whatever they finished last year in the West is the wrong place to direct your anger on here


Agreed.   I would add that there is a lot of stretch based on what we know, to make Meyer public enemy number 1.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

SuperMario

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #610 on: August 18, 2018, 08:51:01 PM »
This was only my second post in this thread. I knew what it would be, and stayed out of it. I'm just laughing at how you were whining and crying about not being able to post here anymore because of all the subtle jabs that the big mean OSU posters were taking at Michigan during the Hoke and Rich Rod years, and how you would never conduct your behavior in such a manner.
Enjoy your annual third place finish in the B1G East, assuming you can even pull that off (fourth place last year).
Actually, i have posted considerably less because I had two beautiful children and started a business. I found my time spent with my family and my career much more precious. When I began posting on CFN nearly 18 years ago, the forum was filled with class acts that loved the game. Gator, Badge, BbTZ and others had differing opinions but great respect. When I see someone like you posting like you are, it’s a quick reminder why my time is well spent on family and business.

MaximumSam

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #611 on: August 18, 2018, 09:52:56 PM »
We love you Super Mario!

bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #612 on: August 18, 2018, 10:39:57 PM »
I can only speak for myself, not the “we” you frequently throw out there.
I DO want to know what Meyer’s role in this was, very specifically.  I KNOW what I would do in certain situations, but not all. If he had certain, irrefutable information and did not do the right things about it, I would feel strongly he should be held accountable.
As others have said, if he is hypocritical on this topic of hitting women- again assuming there was certainty about that.....bye bye.
As for balanced reporting - I copied this from another article:
I'll refer to Society of Professional Journalism's Code of Ethics: 1) Balance the public’s need for information against potential harm or discomfort. Pursuit of the news is not a license for arrogance or undue intrusiveness. 2) Avoid pandering to lurid curiosity, even if others do.

If you think the crap McMurphy is spewing is even remotely relevant to this investigation of Meyer and OSU, than we just flat out are in opposite worlds.

I say we because by and large most people prefer to see their coaches and players as good people. If you'd always thought Urban was to a degree a bad dude, I happily retract the "we"
Your use of "balanced" was not what I was expecting. Usually in this context, it's about feeling a story was less down the middle. I didn't expect it to go toward the balance of privacy vs. right to know. 
I could probably make an argument both ways. It doesn't go toward the narrow story of did Urbs send spousal abuse allegations up the chain. It speaks to a superior deciding to employ someone who seems like a mess at a job that pays $400,000 of semi-public monies. The amazon thing is lurid. The White House thing shows unreal poor judgement. The sex acts in the office with a subordinate is the kind of thing that can get a lot of folks fired. 
I can agree the sex toy thing is undue intrusiveness, and about 78 percent agree the White House thing sort of is. 

bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #613 on: August 18, 2018, 10:43:17 PM »
this from Jeff Snook's facebook

But back to Herman.


He realized Sunday that he had to admit giving Courtney Smith money, which turned out to be $10,000 (even after staring into the cameras two weeks ago and stating he knew nothing of anything going on at Ohio State ‘because we weren’t there in 2015”) and yet, many actually still believed his denial.


And for the record, in the many subsequent messages to and from Michelle Herman since, I have demanded that her husband retract his denial and do the right thing and admit the truth.


I know he won’t, because he has too much at stake to admit the truth now. But he isn’t realizing one more thing: When the investigative committee releases every ounce of its findings, and his name is mentioned, he made a mistake by not admitting the truth and getting out in front of it ahead of time...


The Hermans had an ax to grind only with Zach Smith, as far as I can tell, and had to be shocked beyond belief when Meyer’s role became questioned and he was placed on leave. Smith and Herman, once very close from 2012-14, had a bad falling out since Herman left Ohio State. The wives, however, were very close and remain close.


Still, Michelle Herman told me this Tuesday about Courtney Smith via Messenger:


“She never told me she was being abused. She never told anyone she was being abused. Nobody saw any abuse.”


That, in essence, covered her husband’s responsibility toward his Title IX responsibilities while at Ohio State.


She went on to describe her relationship with Courtney Smith:


“We were close. I am not saying we weren’t close. We just weren’t that close while we were there. I wouldn’t call her my best friend, either.”


So why give her a substantial amount of money in 2017 (three years after the Hermans left Columbus)?


“When she needed to borrow money, she was drowning in debt and going to drop out of school. I said ‘that’s a bad idea. Then what will you do?’ I said, ‘Why don’t you let me loan you the money? I mean, it’s not going to hurt us.’ We loan people money all the time. Sometimes, we just give it to them.”


This also

I have reported that both Courtney Smith’s own mother and her ex-mother-in-law (Zach Smith’s mother) each have labeled her a habitual liar who was executing a pre-planned scheme to take down her ex-husband, and Meyer, himself. She spoke of it often, they said. They also claimed she was the one who committed domestic violence, with first-hand accounts.
*Consistent with their claims, the Powell police department never arrested Zach Smith despite Courtney Smith’s numerous 911 calls. No district attorney in Delaware County ever filed charges.*
Tina Carano, Courtney’s mother, described an incident in which her daughter purposely tried to run over her ex-husband with her car in the summer of 2015 in front of their two children. Zach Smith confirmed this as well. She also said her daughter has a drinking problem and “needs professional help.”
What say you, ESPN?
Crickets.


This column, it does not inspire the confidence in Snook. 

First of all, demanding the retraction via DM and then publicizing it is super weird. Then there is a LOT of ranting about ESPN and Finebaum and "the narrative." Not sure what to make of that. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #614 on: August 19, 2018, 02:20:27 AM »
It's true. The timing with the McMurphy piece could have been a coincidence. Or, even if the OSU brass already knew, the McMurphy report could merely have been the thing that brought enough negative PR to force them to act (fire Zach).
No such thing as coincidences like this.
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TyphonInc

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #615 on: August 19, 2018, 12:52:37 PM »
Your take is a breath of fresh air and exactly how I feel.
Thanks, sometimes I as an irrational Buckeye fan don't stink the joint up that bad. 

 

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