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Topic: In other news ...

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MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30366 on: April 08, 2024, 12:45:03 PM »
Supposedly eastern Lorain County and western Cuyahoga County in Ohio will be right in the center of the 100 mile path of totality as Eclipse passes over between 3:12 pm - 3:15 pm. Cloud cover earlier, sun was out- now kind of spotty. For those who flocked here hope they get to see it,Birds were bellowing earlier now kind of silent. Maybe just happy to see the sun peek out like the rest of us
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30367 on: April 08, 2024, 12:56:06 PM »
According to Cindy they are covering it in Texas now over Austin - don't move or watch there
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30368 on: April 08, 2024, 01:40:10 PM »
Doesn't this make perfect sense, though? 

Hamas finally poked the bear one too many times.  And yes, there's extra, bad fallout from the response, but I understand Israel's response.
no, it does not make perfect sense, and it's a violation of international law as well as occupying armies are bound by international law to well, NOT illegally occupy- and all armies are bound to take measures to avoid killing women and children, not kill everything that moves and slaughter them en masse like Israel does. Big Bad evil Hitler Putin's war has killed around 500 children in Ukraine in over 2 years. Israel's war has killed TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THEM in.... 6 months.

you can also flip that really dumb sh*t you just said that I underlined on it's head and say, Israel poked the bear one too many times during it's illegal 57 year occupation of the territories of the land of the Palestinian people and I understand the Palestinian response. Both just wildly stupid things to say. Hamas terrorist attacks are not acceptable. Obviously. And neither is the response from Israel, which has been far more brutal, horrific, and taken far more innocent lives than anything Hamas could ever dream of pulling off.

people act like all this sh*t just started October 7th with Hamas. newsflash: it's been going on since the early 1900s, when the first wave of European jews immigrated to Palestine- which ended in 1903. Prior to that first wave of European jews immigrating which began in 1880- just 144 years ago- NOT THAT LONG AGO- there were only 25,000 Jews in the entire territory of what is now Israel and Palestine. By the start of WWI there was a 220% increase in population from 1880- but there were still only 80,000 Jews in what is now Israel and Palestine. It continued on to 1916 when the British reneged on a deal with the Arabs to support statehood for the Arabs who lived in what is now Israel-Palestine, if they revolted against Ottoman rule. Well they revolted and toppled their Ottoman overlords, only for the British to stab them in the back and secretly cut a pact with the French to divide the former Ottoman lands and control all the puppet states that followed. The British had no right to do this. To make matters worse- a year later in 1917 the British promised support for taking land from Palestinians for a future Jewish state in Palestine with the Balfour declaration- a promise they had no legal authority to make. An occupying country (UK) has no right to promise land it occupies to a 3rd party for a future statehood. This is an absurdity. The Balfour declaration was nothing more than out-right anti-semitism from a European power to "get them out of our country" and nothing more- the British didn't give two sh*ts about a Jewish state- they just wanted Jews out of their country. The biggest anti-semites in history by FAR has been the European Christian nations.

UK opened up the immigration flood waves and then it continued onto the Nakba in 1948- when what was mainly a band of highly armed militant immigrant colonizer settler Jews from Europe and their children- conquered land that DID NOT belong to them, drove out and ethnic cleansed nearly three quarters of a million Palestinians who had been living on that land for millennia- and establishing a state based off a partition plan from the UN- a plan which gave about 60% of the land to less than 1/3rd of the population and what again was mostly immigrant colonizing settler Europeans- when the Arabs who had been living there for thousands of years- who outnumbered the immigrant colonizer settler Europeans over 2 to 1- received around 40% of the land. This was unacceptable to the majority Arab population- and of course it would lead to: war. War broke out, Israel won- and not only did they claim the land the UN partition was proposing for Israel- they also took 60% of the land the UN was proposing for Palestine. The UN had no mandate or power or right to partition Palestinian lands and create states from whole cloth and thin air.

If the UN really wanted to give European jews a state- they probably should've just given them Germany- a state that quite frankly shouldn't even have the right to exist anymore in my opinion after what the Nazis did. And if that was not enough, it continued on to the the Naksa in 1967 when Israel drove out and ethnic cleansed over 350,000 more Palestinians from their lands and homes- and the Israeli government has been illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza ever since- for 57 straight years. Fun fact: any Jew born anywhere in the world- even part jewish as long as one grandparent or parent is Jewish- have the "right of return" to Israel, yet the million plus Palestinians who were driven from their lands and homes- and in many cases can prove documents of ownership from the times of the Ottoman control- in the Nakba in 1948 and the Naksa in 1967 and the millions of their descendants- do not have the right to return to their homeland. Kind fcking WILD, ain't it? And it continues on even further- when after the fall of the Soviet Union when roughly 1,000,000 Central and Eastern European colonizing settlers immigrated into Israel with the help of the West- and Israel annexed yet even more land from the West Bank to build settlements and housing.

And it continues on to this day. Israel just announced not too long ago they are annexing another 2,000 acres in the West Bank to build settlements. The Palestinian people have been oppressed, slaughtered, driven from their lands, and have lived in what are essentially concentration camps for the last 57 years. I am not condoning any type of terrorist attacks on civilians, but I sure as hell don't know how I would respond if the shoe was on the other foot. I'm not sure you can say so either.

We are suppose to have been past European colonialism and genocide of an indigenous population. The fact that all this has happened in a little over the last 100 plus years is downright shocking to me. And spare me the bullsh*t about the Bible and how this was their land 3,000 years ago. Cause I really don't give a flying f**k about some cockamamy fairytales from some bullsh*t like the Bible that only morons believe actually happened. The historical accuracy of the Bible is like oh, only 0%. The Jews were never slaves in Egypt that built the pyramids. The Romans never executed Jesus. Kind of hard to execute someone who never existed. There was no max exodus from Judea after the Romans crushed their final rebellion. The Romans just destroyed Judea, slaughtered around 600,000 people, took some as slaves, deported any potential trouble makers from the royal family/nobility to Rome, and the Jews that remained there either eventually converted or maintained their religion. What is deeply ironic about this entire ordeal today is that many people calling themselves Palestinian Arabs are the descendants of the Jews and Samaritans who remained in Palestine and converted after the Islamic conquests.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30369 on: April 08, 2024, 01:43:30 PM »
I'm in favor of supporting Ukraine.  It's really a pretty small "donation" in relative terms and keeps them afloat.
I am not in favor of supporting this war. All that will happen if it continues on is that Russia will continue to slowly bleed and Ukraine will continue to be devastated and destroyed, lose more territory and become a shell of it's former self, an ineffective rump state. This benefits no one but arms manufacturers, US multi-national banks like JP Morgan Chase & PE like BlackRock,  and US military strategic interests via weakening a potential rival through proxy.

All the meanwhile it is the millions of innocent civilians in Ukraine that have paid the price and will continue to have paid the price. By the time it's all said and done, it'll probably be over $200 billion. Who knows, could be even more. That is NOT a small donation relative to any terms. The US taxpayer should NOT be on the hook for funding OTHER COUNTRIES GOVERNMENTS AND OTHER COUNTRIES WARS. Much of that money the US has given Ukraine has gone to propping up their government and paying salaries and pensions- and much of it has also, newsflash: been stolen by corrupt government officials and bureaucrats in Kiev. Why does the US gov't feel it is entitled to throw US taxpayers money down the toilet?

And the US is not exactly supporting Ukraine. Anyone with half a brain saw this situation coming, our leaders knew NATO expansion towards Ukraine was a hard redline for the entire Russian leadership and establishment- not just "crazy Hitler Putin!" they knew this outcome would inevitably happen. They pushed forward anyway. This tells me the US leadership at the highest levels were playing at a strategy to weaken a potential rival by using Ukraine as cannon fodder in a proxy war. It was the plan all along. And in case you haven't noticed, we have fantastically incompetent and immoral people in DC running this country and f'ing shit up all across the globe.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30370 on: April 08, 2024, 01:44:51 PM »
Clearly, I'm not in favor of supporting Ukraine, which is not and has never truly been a US Ally.

I fear a broader escalation.

The EU (not NATO) can support Ukraine and risk escalation.

********************************

Why did W force Ukraine to return all of its Nukes to Russia? I don't remember that story.
it was Clinton, and it was a good thing imo. the less countries that have nukes, the less chances there are of one going off.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30371 on: April 08, 2024, 01:46:23 PM »
I think what drives a lot of the slippery slope view is the concern that Putin is crazy and has a huge ego

If you keep pushing him theres a valid concern he will do an irrational act
Putin has been in power for 25 years. I don't see a ton of evidence of him being crazy. I see a ton of evidence of him being a ruthless calculating murderous bastard, but not some crazy mad man. This war was lunacy on his part, as it won't end well for him even if Ukraine is blocked forever from NATO, as Russia has been severely diminished on the world stage and will continue to remain so even after the end of the war imo.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30372 on: April 08, 2024, 01:49:06 PM »
Israel has problems on all sides and from far away.

The UK really screwed the pooch.
Israel in large part creates it's own problems with the way it behaves and it's ongoing and continued illegal occupation, apartheid, mass murder and ethnic cleansing of Palestine. 

yes the UK most certainly did, first they reneged on a deal to support an independent unified Arab kingdom in 1916, and then in 1917 the Balfour declaration was a disgrace. What right did the UK have to state they would support a Jewish state on land that was not there's? Oh yeah, none. 

Israel in reality should never have existed. It is a settler colonial state founded by European immigrant settler colonizers and their descendants. It exists though, so nothing you can do about that now. The only moral solution imo is for Israel to end it's apartheid, tear down all the prison walls and fencing of the open air concentration camp of Gaza- destroy all their settlements in the West Bank and let Gaza and the West Bank unify and create a state and have a two state solution. It's either that- or just continue on down the path they are on of ethnic cleansing and taking all the territory- which will just lead to it's destruction.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30373 on: April 08, 2024, 01:55:16 PM »
It's weird to think about, but most of the world's countries occupy land that wasn't originally theirs.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30374 on: April 08, 2024, 01:59:31 PM »
We need to pull out of that mess, and this mess.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-ukraine-oil-refineries-strikes-biden-administration-vladimir-putin-b0ef679c?st=xlvnxndyueuw5ex&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-ukraine-oil-refineries-strikes-biden-administration-vladimir-putin-b0ef679c?st=xlvnxndyueuw5ex&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
US shouldn't just pull out support right now. Ukraine would collapse overnight and then they'd really be screwed. US leaders should be on the phone with Putin and his leadership trying to get to an acceptable peace plan, put together a treaty to create a neutral Ukraine and end the war. Unfortunately, US leaders are morons and won't even get on the phone with Russian leadership and try to negotiate and try to make a peace. 

You make peace with your enemies, not your friends. How is peace to be made when US leadership flat out refuses to even talk?

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30375 on: April 08, 2024, 02:00:57 PM »
It's weird to think about, but most of the world's countries occupy land that wasn't originally theirs.
yes, I know. but you'd think human beings would be beyond that heinous crap by now. we're still savages.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30376 on: April 08, 2024, 02:02:10 PM »
Why does everyone act like a nuke is a slippery slope.  They've only been used once, and that was going on 80 years ago.
Excuse me for suggesting the band-aid be ripped off instead of gradually over decades.  My bad.
Let's pretend 3 or 4 generations being raised in fear and hate and danger and murder and death is preferable to a quick, single outcome (horrific, obviously).
this is just beyond stupid. don't even know where to begin. but yeah, sure let's pretend that Israel using a nuke on Iran doesn't have the high potential to create a scenario where a larger massive wear breaks out. 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30377 on: April 08, 2024, 02:02:48 PM »
Who said otherwise? 
It's not like Israel has any good options.
Israel has one option and that's it. They need to destroy all their settlements in the West Bank and get out, and they need to stop their illegal occupation of Palestinian lands and stop the genocide they are committing in Gaza. That's it. Anything less than that will surely lead to nothing but bad for them in the long run. 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30378 on: April 08, 2024, 02:03:11 PM »
Use of nuclear weapons would be bad.
understatement of the century. lol. 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30379 on: April 08, 2024, 02:04:34 PM »
Their borders with Jordan and Egypt are probably in the "OK" range, if they nuked Iran (!!!) that could change.  Iran obviously encourages others to do their dirty work, which is a bit odd because Iranians and Arabs historically don't get along, at all, in fact, they despise each other.

I don't see some magical solution to any of this mess, certainly not one involving nuclear weapons (nor does anyone else).
The Iranians and the Arabs don't get along. The Saudis want the Americans to eliminate that regime just as badly as Israel wants. 

People acting like Arabs are against Israel because of some religious beef is just flat wrong. Jews were treated far better and lived much safer, better lives under Islam rule than they ever did under Christian rule in Europe. 

It's not about religion. It's about Israel taking what is most precious to a people, their land, their homes, the lives of their children, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, cousins. Israel taking their dignity and forcing them into what are essentially open air concentration camps. Their barbaric actions breed hate and contempt. It's a vicious cycle.

 

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