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Topic: In other news ...

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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30324 on: April 05, 2024, 04:58:50 PM »
And he's dumb.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30325 on: April 05, 2024, 05:00:23 PM »
This is stated policy and has been for a while.

NATO - Topic: Relations with Ukraine


  • In response to Ukraine’s aspirations for NATO membership, Allies agreed at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. They also agreed that Ukraine’s next step on its way to membership was the Membership Action Plan (MAP), NATO’s programme of political, economic, defence, resource, security and legal reforms for aspirant countries. In 2009, the Annual National Programme was introduced as Ukraine’s key instrument to advance its Euro-Atlantic integration and related reforms.
  • From 2010 to 2014, Ukraine pursued a non-alignment policy, which it terminated in response to Russia’s aggression. In June 2017, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted legislation reinstating membership in NATO as a strategic foreign and security policy objective. In 2019, a corresponding amendment to Ukraine's Constitution entered into force.
  • In September 2020, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, which provides for the development of the distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO. In September 2022, following Russia’s illegal attempted annexations of Ukrainian territory, Ukraine reiterated its request for NATO membership.
  • At the 2023 Vilnius Summit, Allies reaffirmed their commitment that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. Recognising Ukraine’s increased interoperability and substantial progress with reforms, they decided that Ukraine’s path to full Euro-Atlantic integration has moved beyond the need for the Membership Action Plan. Allies will continue to support and review Ukraine’s progress on interoperability as well as additional democratic and security sector reforms that are required on its path towards future membership. NATO Foreign Ministers will regularly assess progress through the adapted Annual National Programme. NATO will be in a position to extend an invitation to Ukraine to join the Alliance when Allies agree and conditions are met.
yeah, no. the "fast track to NATO" bs ANTNY Blinken went on about publicly the other day was not stated policy nor has it "been for awhile". The stated policy since Bush II has been "Ukraine will be in NATO someday, but hey, that day is long out and who knows when". 

This entire sh*ts show goes back to the Bush II administration when that retard proposed NATO membership to Ukraine and Georgia. This set off a five alarm fire in Russian leadership- not just with Putin- with every damn body in Russian leadership. We know this because of the many insiders who worked for the Bush II administration have talked about it like Fiona Hill- who strongly advised him against it and has said the Germans and French were the ones who put the kibosh on fast-track membership- and basically blocked both from actually joining- and we know this because of leaked US gov't cables published by the most important publisher of our or any era- Julian Assange- over at WikiLeaks. One of which was a cable titled nyet means nyet- written by William Burns- then US ambassador to Russia under Bush II- now director of the CIA under Biden. You can read the memo here, and he warns the Bush II administration about what would could happen if this policy was pursued- and everything he said in the memo 16 f*cking years ago happened almost word for word- yet no one wanted to listen to him. 

The Obama administration sparked a fuse with it's backing of an illegal coup d'etat of a democratically elected government, Trump administration ratcheted things up to 11 and started flooding Ukraine with lethal arms- something the Obama administration refused to do in order not to provoke Russia, and the dumpster fire Biden administration has done nothing but thrown gasoline on the dumpster fire. ANTY Blinkin and the rest of the Biden admin are bunch of monkies with a machine gun. Worse actually, they control nuclear weapons arsenals and the most powerful military on earth.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30326 on: April 05, 2024, 05:03:39 PM »
Bringing Ukraine Into NATO Without World War III - CEPA

I don't really agree with this position.  Well, I disagree entirely.
it's a beyond stupid position. Russia will ramp up the levels of depravity and try to destroy Ukraine before it willingly let's it join NATO, and there's zero chance a larger war does not break out if Ukraine was shoved into NATO asap somehow.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30327 on: April 05, 2024, 06:29:54 PM »
My Marine friends talked about doing one of their summers in Israel.  They'd go out on practice exercises, and the Israelis would say "OK, this is how we do THIS.".  The Marines would say "Hold up, we're not allowed to do that in this situation, our ROEs are different."

They were impressed at how the IDF ROEs were quite a bit more "liberal" in terms of how to clear a building etc. than ours would be.  In other words, they aren't that concerned with either civilian casualties OR what the world thinks about them.

It's a small country with enemies on several sides and they are a bit paranoid and don't mess around.  And I don't think there is a whole lot the US can do about it.
Doesn't this make perfect sense, though?  

Hamas finally poked the bear one too many times.  And yes, there's extra, bad fallout from the response, but I understand Israel's response.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30328 on: April 05, 2024, 06:34:23 PM »
yeah, cause a nuclear war involving weapons significantly more powerful than the ones dropped on Japan is definitely the answer.


:a102:
Why does everyone act like a nuke is a slippery slope.  They've only been used once, and that was going on 80 years ago.
Excuse me for suggesting the band-aid be ripped off instead of gradually over decades.  My bad.
Let's pretend 3 or 4 generations being raised in fear and hate and danger and murder and death is preferable to a quick, single outcome (horrific, obviously).
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30329 on: April 05, 2024, 06:50:49 PM »
Use of nuclear weapons would be bad. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30330 on: April 05, 2024, 08:15:54 PM »
Who said otherwise? 
It's not like Israel has any good options.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30331 on: April 05, 2024, 08:36:41 PM »
They have many options short of nuclear war.   Who would they even attack?

Cincydawg

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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30333 on: April 05, 2024, 09:28:19 PM »
Doesn't this make perfect sense, though? 

Hamas finally poked the bear one too many times.  And yes, there's extra, bad fallout from the response, but I understand Israel's response. 
I understand Israel's response
targeting and killing women, children and foreign aid workers is absolutely horrible and should not be allowed without punishment from the US and the rest of the world
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30334 on: April 05, 2024, 09:43:31 PM »
Why does everyone act like a nuke is a slippery slope.  They've only been used once, and that was going on 80 years ago.
Excuse me for suggesting the band-aid be ripped off instead of gradually over decades.  My bad.
Let's pretend 3 or 4 generations being raised in fear and hate and danger and murder and death is preferable to a quick, single outcome (horrific, obviously).
I think what drives a lot of the slippery slope view is the concern that Putin is crazy and has a huge ego

If you keep pushing him theres a valid concern he will do an irrational act
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30335 on: April 05, 2024, 11:49:39 PM »
They have many options short of nuclear war.  Who would they even attack?
Iran, the country behind all of the proxy attacks made on them.  
Just drop it on Bandar Abbas, their big port hub.  And if they start to fight back, drop another one on Tehran.  

You mess with Israel, this is what happens.  You send your toadies to mess with Israel, this is what happens.  
OR
Israel can go on playing defense, getting rocket shelled every other month for the rest of time.  I guess that's acceptable.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier


Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30337 on: April 06, 2024, 07:22:28 AM »
I don't think a first use of nuclear weapons against Iran would do anything for Israel but make things much much worse, and they appear to think the same way, which is notable.  Iran is not their only problem of course.  Making new problems seems ill advised to me.

 

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