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Topic: In other news ...

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27608 on: November 01, 2023, 07:03:41 PM »
Pitmasters have been NOT wet aging briskets for generations and turned out delicious product.  I'm not sold on it. 

But lots of the modern pitmasters seem to believe in it.  To each his own.
But as with all things, decisions don't exist in a vacuum. They must always be balanced against economics.

Let's say you're Aaron Franklin. I don't know if he ages his briskets or not. But if he does, he has to have fridge space for 3+ weeks of unused brisket sitting there. He has to float the cost of all that brisket 3 extra weeks and carry that inventory. He has to look at the advantage of the aging vs the premium he'll get from customers for the quality of his brisket, and whether it's worth it. If it's a miniscule advantage, he might choose not to do it, NOT because it doesn't make the product better, but because it doesn't do so to the extent that is economically justifiable. 

Now let's say you're a competition pitmaster. The number of briskets you're holding as inventory is much smaller, so all the refrigeration costs are much lower. You're looking not for revenue, but for trophies--and bragging rights. A miniscule advantage may be worth it if it's the difference between finishing 2nd and 5th. If you think it gives you an edge, it's worth it.

For me, I don't know if it makes a difference. But the idea that it *might* improve the product, and the knowledge that it doesn't diminish it, makes me start looking for brisket 3-4 weeks in advance of when I'm planning to use one. Not being in Texas (and BTW I got to go to HEB in San Antonio--and I'm jealous) I might not see a brisket that's the right size/shape/marbling 3-4 weeks in advance. But I start looking because I know that if it sits in the fridge over that time, it'll potentially be even better than if I find one 1 week before. And if I don't see one? It's not enough of a difference-maker IMHO to worry about. I look the next week. The idea of wet-aging brisket gives me the flexibility to start looking for meat before I would have ordinarily done so, because prior to hearing about it I thought that brisket was like most other meat--have to use it or freeze it pretty quickly after you take it home. 

Whether you choose to wet age or not depends a lot on who you are, what problem you're solving for, and what constraints you live under.

I don't have a "belief" on whether wet aging is great or not. If everything aligns for me schedule-wise, I'll do it. But it's not a hill I'm going to die on that it's some insane difference-maker.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27609 on: November 01, 2023, 09:35:34 PM »
Expensive wine is wasted on me.  I can't tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $200 bottle
Same.
Refridgerate your grape juice, people!!!
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Riffraft

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27610 on: November 01, 2023, 10:46:50 PM »
I hear this a lot from folks who usually have never had a $200 bottle.  I used to do a blind tasting with wines ranging from $5 ti $100 with folks.  Many were surprised at how good the latter wine was.  It really doesn't require some unusual experience or palette to discriminate.
I have had very expensive wine many times. I have a friend who is a vinophile who always breaking open some fine wine just can't tell.

Maybe a blind taste test might prove different.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27611 on: November 01, 2023, 11:17:15 PM »
Same with cigars, for me.  My uncle is always happy to share one of his good ones, but it would just be wasted on me. 
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27612 on: November 01, 2023, 11:43:05 PM »
But as with all things, decisions don't exist in a vacuum. They must always be balanced against economics.

Let's say you're Aaron Franklin. I don't know if he ages his briskets or not. But if he does, he has to have fridge space for 3+ weeks of unused brisket sitting there. He has to float the cost of all that brisket 3 extra weeks and carry that inventory. He has to look at the advantage of the aging vs the premium he'll get from customers for the quality of his brisket, and whether it's worth it. If it's a miniscule advantage, he might choose not to do it, NOT because it doesn't make the product better, but because it doesn't do so to the extent that is economically justifiable.

Now let's say you're a competition pitmaster. The number of briskets you're holding as inventory is much smaller, so all the refrigeration costs are much lower. You're looking not for revenue, but for trophies--and bragging rights. A miniscule advantage may be worth it if it's the difference between finishing 2nd and 5th. If you think it gives you an edge, it's worth it.

For me, I don't know if it makes a difference. But the idea that it *might* improve the product, and the knowledge that it doesn't diminish it, makes me start looking for brisket 3-4 weeks in advance of when I'm planning to use one. Not being in Texas (and BTW I got to go to HEB in San Antonio--and I'm jealous) I might not see a brisket that's the right size/shape/marbling 3-4 weeks in advance. But I start looking because I know that if it sits in the fridge over that time, it'll potentially be even better than if I find one 1 week before. And if I don't see one? It's not enough of a difference-maker IMHO to worry about. I look the next week. The idea of wet-aging brisket gives me the flexibility to start looking for meat before I would have ordinarily done so, because prior to hearing about it I thought that brisket was like most other meat--have to use it or freeze it pretty quickly after you take it home.

Whether you choose to wet age or not depends a lot on who you are, what problem you're solving for, and what constraints you live under.

I don't have a "belief" on whether wet aging is great or not. If everything aligns for me schedule-wise, I'll do it. But it's not a hill I'm going to die on that it's some insane difference-maker.

Oh I understand all this.  I've mentioned that I grew up in the BBQ business right?  My parents owned a BBQ restaurant from the time I was 6 until I was 16, and I worked pretty much every job in the joint.

Aaron Franklin does wet age his product, and it does increase the price.  I was slow-playing all of that a bit, intentionally, because brisket prices have become outrageous at the "premier" places.  He's also using prime brisket, which is completely unnecessary.  I have personally run a blind taste test on my family and friends 2x over, with a prime brisket vs. a select/ungraded brisket, prepared and cooked exactly the same way.

Wanna guess how many folks could tell the difference?  Yeah, you got it.

Anyway, if Aaron is buying and holding meat for 2-3 weeks at a time, that's an unbelievable amount of refrigerator space.  He sells almost 11,000 lbs per week.

And yes, HEB is awesome.  

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27613 on: November 02, 2023, 07:44:38 AM »
I have had very expensive wine many times. I have a friend who is a vinophile who always breaking open some fine wine just can't tell.

Maybe a blind taste test might prove different.
Blind tasting really uncovers a lot of biases in people, in my experience.  I did one once with about 40 folks from France who visited here, my wife and son in law were pouring from bottles that were covered up.  One was French, one American, same price within a dollar or so.  They really whiffed on the chardonnay, and I had selected one that was in the "California style" versus a Burgundy, both about $20.  Then Pinot Noir and a Bordeaux style blend, they were about 50-50 on that one.

Several wanted to inspect the bottles, I think they thought I switched them up or something.  They seemed to have fun, we drank the rest of the wine.

I'd do this with our local group pretty often, mostly testing folks on naming the varietal.  It's tougher than most think, I'm not very good at it either.  

I would also do one with different types of glasses, that is the most amazing event ever.

Anyway, I personally find that $20 is a good price point, for me.  I get interested in the wine there, whereas at $10 I may just think it's pretty good, fine for drinking, at $20 it usually starts to be interesting.  If you tasted a $200 and a $10 back to back I think you'd note a difference, and you could well prefer the $10.  This presumes the $200 is properly aged and served of course.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27614 on: November 02, 2023, 07:49:38 AM »
Any wine lover would be remised to not go here at least one time.

Premium Steaks in Tampa | Largest Wine Collection | Bern's Steak House (bernssteakhouse.com)
Premium Steaks in Tampa | Largest Wine Collection | Bern's Steak House (bernssteakhouse.com)

BSH-Wine-List-July-2023-web.pdf (bernssteakhouse.com)
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27615 on: November 02, 2023, 07:50:33 AM »
This barbecue conversation is reminding me that back home in California someone has opened a “Texas style“ place that is currently all the rage. 

Every time I’ve got home of late, I’ve been too busy to make it over there. But I will be back there for Thanksgiving so maybe I can sneak over.

I don’t have the highest hopes. The last restaurant in that style I tried out there was very mid. Living in the semi-deep south, i’ve been to a couple places that do it really, really well. In a bunch that do it well enough.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27616 on: November 02, 2023, 08:09:26 AM »
The whole proce:value thing is always interesting, to me.  Take airline tickets, Delta One to France is something around $6,000.  Economy can be $1,200, Comfort Plus around $1,500.  Then they have "Premium" around $2,200.  We were in "Delta One" once, a flight to Seattle where we got upgraded and the plane was fitted with that as first class.  It's pretty neat, we played with the seats for much of the trip, but $6K?  Nope.

And travel has a lot of those price points, hotels, rental cars, tours ...  my wife doesn't like a hotel room that isn't really clean, so that means we avoid "motel 6" etc.  I'm looking at a hotel in Tokyo for two nights, one is $650 a night, but it's centrally located, and I have enough points for it fortunately.  Probably use taxis to get there from airport.

I don't mind using MARTA to get to the airport, my wife is not a fan, but she will tag along.  A cab is fixed at $35 from here to there.  Our friend usually drives us (and we him).  MARTA is one dollar, and a walk a bit less than a mile.

Restaurants.  Most of us here can fix pretty good dinners, there is no reason to dine out really, except some of us may enjoy the experience at times.  I can get two nice steaks at the butchers for $35, my wife just got a large flat iron at Kroger for $28, enough for four people.  If we go to STK or Bones or wherever, it'll be over $100 for two of us, plus maybe $65 for wine.  We don't do that often at all, I can fix steak reasonably well myself.  

I can't really do BBQ, and it's not so expensive, two of us can dine at Fox Bros. for maybe $50 if we have a beer.

Then of course there is store brand vs branded product, beans, laundry detergent, shampoo, toilet paper.  A good thing is "we" usually have choices and personal preferences and some latitude hopefully in spending.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27617 on: November 02, 2023, 08:21:56 AM »
You gotta go to Bern's CDawg. Make it part of your next camp trip.

Also, store brand is my friend. I have a story about this.
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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27618 on: November 02, 2023, 08:28:32 AM »
I've saved a lot of money over the past 40 years by going less expensive on these things

I've "earned" the right to splurge a little more on some of the finer things that I enjoy.
It's just reminding myself to do it and break the habit
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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27619 on: November 02, 2023, 09:20:41 AM »
This barbecue conversation is reminding me that back home in California someone has opened a “Texas style“ place that is currently all the rage.

Every time I’ve got home of late, I’ve been too busy to make it over there. But I will be back there for Thanksgiving so maybe I can sneak over.

I don’t have the highest hopes. The last restaurant in that style I tried out there was very mid. Living in the semi-deep south, i’ve been to a couple places that do it really, really well. In a bunch that do it well enough.

Many years ago I used to travel a lot for work.  When I was at AMD, I spent a lot of time at our Sunnyvale office, and also visiting customers in San Jose, Menlo Park, etc.  Invariably our local staff would take us Texans to various new BBQ spots that had opened, telling us "this one's the real deal."  Most of them were pretty average, one or two were outright bad.

But there was one that a coworker/friend of mine took me to, that was very, very good.  I don't remember which of those towns it was, and I don't recall the name. But I have personally experienced very good Texas-style BBQ, in California.  So it CAN happen. :)


Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27620 on: November 02, 2023, 09:22:23 AM »
I lean to going to seafood restaurants if I'm near the coast.  I'm still looking for one that doesn't just buy frozen fish from Sysco et al. even in Florida.

They used to be dime a dozen.

And great.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27621 on: November 02, 2023, 09:28:27 AM »
We were in Austin years back, I was driving around wine country there and found a really nice spot, I forget which now, they had pretty good wines at decent prices.  We drove away thinking about lunch and were on some 4 lane highway south of Austin maybe 30 miles and saw a BBQ joint that was crowded and stopped there.  I since learned it was a chain of some sort, and was mediocre, which surprised me why it was so crowded.  I usually find decent restaurants in places but we misfired in Austin overall.  We were staying with a friend of the wife's and took her out to her favorite place and it too was mediocre we thought (not Q).

I couldn't find it on google maps.  Maybe they closed.

 

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