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Topic: In other news ...

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24836 on: June 22, 2023, 02:15:03 PM »
Like it or not, we do have explicit or implicit security arrangements with various countries, and feel the need to be able to project force from something other than aircraft carriers.

Ref-0213-US-Military-Bases-and-Facilities-Middle-East.pdf (americansecurityproject.org)

I don't personally think of the UAE as a "murderous dictatorship".  It's an interesting place, I've been there.
lmfao yeah, you're right, UAE is totally a bastion of freedom. The tribal familial dictatorship there totally allows people freedom of expression, voting, formation of political parties, they never arrest people on trumped up charges, and totally never torture people either. Great humans rights record, that one! Lol.

US bases are for force projection/domination of the world. That's it. They do not exist to "provide security" or "promote freedom". That is propaganda. Fairytales children tell themselves.

US has long track record of having military bases in countries with horrific dictatorships and supporting those dictators to the hilt. For example Marcos in the Philippines, which at one point in the 80s, the US had close to 20,000 troops in bases in that country, all while Marcos was stealing the wealth of the country, imprisoning people without charge, torturing, and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of his own citizens and ruling that country with an iron fist. The US supported Marcos right to the end, and then when that dictatorship was toppled and the new govt kicked the US out, the US allowed Marcos and his family safe harbor and they were exiled to the US. His son actually just took power in the Philippines, and wouldn't you know, US is going hard in the paint and just secured a deal this year with the Marcos JR govt to return to the Philippines and open 4 new military bases there.....crazy how that works....what a coincidence.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24837 on: June 22, 2023, 02:49:56 PM »
Yeah, sure. That's what we have all those bases for. Liberating people. Lol. Not to maintain dominance and hegemony over the entire world....
I didn't say it wasn't that. It is.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Gigem

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24838 on: June 22, 2023, 05:24:25 PM »
 It's one of the many tools which the US has used to dominate the entire world.

TBH, I'm perfectly OK with the US dominating the entire world.  It's worked out A-OK for the last 80+ years, even if we had to spill some blood along the way.  And we only kill those who "need" killin'.  

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24839 on: June 22, 2023, 05:33:55 PM »
The UAE occupies a rather critical "choke point" for international trade, and is across from a country that speaks harshly about the US and our allies, I'd think our bases there are more oriented to Iran than propping up UAE (which doesn't need our help in that regard anyway).  The concept, in theory, is to prevent conflict by being in position if anything bad happens.

Now, one can argue we should leave these areas alone and let them all deal with whatever themselves.  But the bases do provide for the US to project force without an aicraft carrier.  I don't believe we have these bases to prop up evil dictatorships, that makes no sense to me.  We have them to deter potential enemies.

(The UAE is an interesting place and I wonder if they have longer term stability with their social structure and treatment of workers.  It's hypermodern in most places, I wondered where they got all that money ....  ).

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24840 on: June 22, 2023, 06:01:59 PM »
TBH, I'm perfectly OK with the US dominating the entire world.  It's worked out A-OK for the last 80+ years, even if we had to spill some blood along the way.  And we only kill those who "need" killin'. 
Great, I wonder if those killed see it that way.
Aside from that, just imagine you were born and grew up in a marginal, ho-hum country.  Over the course of your lifetime, some other country that doesn't speak your language or seems to share many of your culture's values dominates the entire globe, militarily.  It's defense budget is as much as the next 13 countries, 12 of which are allies.  
And when that country was directly attacked, it took over another country having nothing to do with that attack.
.
I doubt you'd be "perfectly OK" with that country.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24841 on: June 22, 2023, 07:01:05 PM »
TBH, I'm perfectly OK with the US dominating the entire world.  It's worked out A-OK for the last 80+ years, even if we had to spill some blood along the way.  And we only kill those who "need" killin'. 
to be clear, I am OK with the US being the dominant force in the world. I'm an American. It's good for me. It's good for the people of this country. I want America to be #1 in the world. Selfishly.

I just do not buy into the BS that we do it out of the goodness of our hearts because we are such good guys that want to promote freedom or provide security to people's of the world. That is just pure propaganda. We do it because we can and because it allows us to wield enormous power and influence over the entire world. 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24842 on: June 22, 2023, 07:11:10 PM »
The UAE occupies a rather critical "choke point" for international trade, and is across from a country that speaks harshly about the US and our allies, I'd think our bases there are more oriented to Iran than propping up UAE (which doesn't need our help in that regard anyway).  The concept, in theory, is to prevent conflict by being in position if anything bad happens.

Now, one can argue we should leave these areas alone and let them all deal with whatever themselves.  But the bases do provide for the US to project force without an aicraft carrier.  I don't believe we have these bases to prop up evil dictatorships, that makes no sense to me.  We have them to deter potential enemies.

(The UAE is an interesting place and I wonder if they have longer term stability with their social structure and treatment of workers.  It's hypermodern in most places, I wondered where they got all that money ....  ).
where do you think all of those Gulf family dictatorship states have gotten vast majority of their weapons systems & military/intelligence training from? the US military industrial complex. they all absolutely need our help in maintaining & modernizing their militaries and intelligence services- which they in turn use to maintain their dictatorships.

Glad you brought up Iran, a country that wouldn't be as royally fked up as it is today if the US and it's CIA hadn't overthrown a democratically elected secularist gov't in 1953 and installed a puppet dictator who proceeded to rape, pillage, jail, torture, and murder an entire country for the next 26 years before the people inside that country finally rose up and deposed him. In that power vacuum a bunch of nut-job theocrats seized power and well it's been a total fkn sh!tshow ever since. Just another complete failure in a long list of horrific blowback that winds up biting us in the arse in the long run from the CIA/US State Dept doing shady fked up illegal things all around the world.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24843 on: June 22, 2023, 07:11:54 PM »
Great, I wonder if those killed see it that way.
Aside from that, just imagine you were born and grew up in a marginal, ho-hum country.  Over the course of your lifetime, some other country that doesn't speak your language or seems to share many of your culture's values dominates the entire globe, militarily.  It's defense budget is as much as the next 13 countries, 12 of which are allies. 
And when that country was directly attacked, it took over another country having nothing to do with that attack.
.
I doubt you'd be "perfectly OK" with that country. 
it continually amazes me that people can never just put themselves in the shoes of others for like a split second....

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24844 on: June 22, 2023, 07:27:28 PM »
TBH, I'm perfectly OK with the US dominating the entire world.  It's worked out A-OK for the last 80+ years, even if we had to spill some blood along the way.  And we only kill those who "need" killin'. 
And we often kill a bunch of people who don't "need killin"..... there was zero justification for the US to launch a full scale invasion and occupation of Iraq. That was one of the greatest crimes this country has ever committed. Or to stay in Afghanistan for 20+ f'n years. Or to bomb the shit out of Libya. Or to launch operation timber sycamore in Syria (in which US basically armed terrorist AQ off-shoots to fight the Assad regime) and then proceed to bomb the living fkn sh!t out of that country for years. US is still occupying 1/3rd of Syria as we speak by the way....

Gigem

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24845 on: June 22, 2023, 08:56:09 PM »
You might say that Nazi Germany lost WWII because they chose to foolishly invade the Soviet Union, and then Hitler ignored his best Generals advice and made foolish blunder after foolish blunder. But you really can’t, because I firmly believe that without the United States assistance in terms of machinery, man power, ships, and economic support there is no way Britain would have been successful in invading from the West, forcing the Germans to wage war on two fronts. Germany may have been able to fight Russia to a stand-still at the vertical least, and Britain would’ve happily kept their island Nation status a bit longer. 

Instead, with the US help, Russia and the rest of the allies defeated the Nazis. But we just didn’t stop there. We were smart enough to recognize the events from the end of WWI led to WWII, and we helped rebuild not just the bystander countries as well as Germany. Then we helped them re-establish a democratic government, and pretty much let them rule themself. 

All we asked in return was enough space to bury our dead and a few military bases. 


Gigem

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24846 on: June 22, 2023, 09:00:59 PM »
Meanwhile Stalin and his successors literally murdered millions more, put them in the Gulag for life, persecuted anybody who did not agree with their ideology. 

No freedom, no escape. Remember the iron curtain and the Berlin Wall?  That was actually a thing. And China and Mao have probably done worse, but they had enough sense to hide behind cheap labor and goods instead of becoming instant enemies they crept it up really slow. 

Remember, we had Nukes for almost 5 years before the Russians. We could have taken them out ( Stalin and his murdering dickface cronies), but chose not to. 

Gigem

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24847 on: June 22, 2023, 09:08:33 PM »
Western Europe has flourished. And guess what, there hasn’t been a real European war since. 

And yes, Vietnam happened, and Korea, and all of the little wars in between, but IMO those are nothing compared to WW1 and WW2. But we’re not perfect, and we definitely used things to our advantage when we could, and did some bad along the way. 

And what I’m trying to say is SOMEBODY has got to be top dog, and I’d say for the most part we’ve done a bang up job in that regard. 

You’ll find out soon enough about China and their motivations. I just hope that when the shooting starts I can convince my kids and someday grandkids to stay out of it unless their troops are landing here. But I really don’t want anymore American blood spilled in some foreign country.  

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24848 on: June 22, 2023, 09:28:26 PM »
I don't believe we have these bases to prop up evil dictatorships, that makes no sense to me.  We have them to deter potential enemies.
we certainly have propped up evil dictatorships to deter potential enemies
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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24849 on: June 22, 2023, 09:32:09 PM »
I agree with a lot of what you said. The new world order, of which the US has been kingshit and leader of, has in general kept the world out of catastrophic wars like WWI and WWII. No denying that, because it's true. But I also wonder how much of that had to do with the US and USSR developing nuclear weapons literally thousands of times more powerful than the ones the US dropped in Japan and building up their nuclear arsenals to the point where any major world war directly involving the two would basically be a guaranteed extinction level event. Mutually assured destruction and all that jazz. I'd guess that tends to keep both sides say ya know what, it's not really worth ending the human race over anything....which is crazy for me to say because I hate the damn things and wish they'd never been built.

 

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