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Topic: In other news ...

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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24178 on: June 01, 2023, 04:23:15 PM »
Fun day. Have the damn dryer open... Again. I've replaced the heater element and associated sensors/etc twice, had to replace the idler pulley and belt once, and now the damn thing trips the breaker every time I try to start a cycle. Worked fine for multiple loads Monday. Tried one load Tuesday and it cuts out basically immediately.

Happens on air fluff and I've tested the heater element and no short there, so I don't think it's the heater. I've pulled the motor and with a multimeter I don't see any direct shorts from any terminal (except GND obv) to the frame of the motor, so it's not an obvious problem. Plus I would assume a direct short in the motor wouldn't cause the dryer to even ATTEMPT to spin up, and would trip as soon as I hit the start button. But in this case it takes 1-2 seconds for the motor to start spinning up before it trips.

But I'm still thinking it's the motor, so I guess I'll just have my dryer in pieces in the garage until tomorrow when Amazon delivers a new motor.

Ugh.
Ask your husband to give it a try.

Sorry, spending too much time on surlyhorns lately. :)

Is the breaker a GFCI breaker?  If so, it's possible that it's weak and starting to let go.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24179 on: June 01, 2023, 04:26:13 PM »
Isn't the owner responsible for this crap??
No, it's a SFH rental with washer/dryer hookups but I had to supply my own. If it turns out to be something wrong with the breaker, it's his responsibility. But the dryer is self-owned and my own responsibility. 

I don't think it's a weak breaker though. I'd expect that to have been a more progressive and intermittent issue, not something that happens literally within 1.5s of hitting the start button, when it's never tripped before. 

time to call the man

I am the man lol. Calling in an appliance repairman might be easier, but I don't think there's anything they'll be able to do that I can't, and it'll be a damn sight more money. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24180 on: June 01, 2023, 04:30:08 PM »
Ask your husband to give it a try.

Sorry, spending too much time on surlyhorns lately. :)

Is the breaker a GFCI breaker?  If so, it's possible that it's weak and starting to let go.
Lol. 

No, not GFCI. Fairly old construction. Per above, I don't imagine that a weak breaker would be an immediate trip. Especially when I see the same thing where I choose "air fluff" and so the heater element isn't even being energized. Something's drawing way too much current, and I'm thinking it's gotta be the motor. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24181 on: June 01, 2023, 05:11:25 PM »
Lol.

No, not GFCI. Fairly old construction. Per above, I don't imagine that a weak breaker would be an immediate trip. Especially when I see the same thing where I choose "air fluff" and so the heater element isn't even being energized. Something's drawing way too much current, and I'm thinking it's gotta be the motor.
The situation you described is very unusual.

For one thing, the heating element typically draws a LOT more juice than the motor so if it was a weak breaker it would still almost certainly work on the no-heat air fluff setting.

The motor itself should hit it's maximum draw when starting up*. Thus, if the motor was going to pop the breaker it would ordinarily do it on start-up, not a couple seconds later.

Dryer motors are usually 120v but the heating element is 240v so the motor itself is only using one half of the circuit.

Replacing the breaker isn't terribly difficult, you should be able to get one at any HD/Lowes, and that would save you some time diagnostically because you could at least rule that out.

*Example:
I've run into a situation multiple times where the kitchen breaker will trip if the refrigerator kicks on while the toaster or toaster oven is on. However, if you start up the toaster while the refrigerator is already running, no problem. The situation is basically this:
  • Toaster draws 1,200 Watts. At 120V that is 10 Amps (Amps*Volts=Watts).
  • Refrigerator draws 480 Watts running but 720 Watts on start-up. At 120V that is 4/6 Amps.
  • The combined draw is thus 14 Amps when the Refrigerator is running and 16 Amps when the refrigerator starts up.
  • If this is a 15 Amp breaker (cheaper because you can use smaller, 14 GA wire instead of larger 12 GA wire) then it will trip if the refrigerator kicks on while the toaster is on but NOT if you start the toaster after the refrigerator starts.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 05:19:38 PM by medinabuckeye1 »

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24182 on: June 01, 2023, 05:37:37 PM »
This is why I changed out all of the kitchen and bathroom circuits to 20 amp when we moved in here. This was not easy since they use Romex down here. No conduit to be found. 

I gave my Greenlee fish tape and conduit bender to my electrician son. No use for those here.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24183 on: June 01, 2023, 06:01:30 PM »
https://apple.news/ARbKQLg3-QyC5rMjRp0ofbg

Organized Retail Crime. 

Not an easy fix.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24184 on: June 01, 2023, 06:20:13 PM »
https://apple.news/ARbKQLg3-QyC5rMjRp0ofbg

Organized Retail Crime.

Not an easy fix. 
Huh, so when I'm shopping at felloffthebackofatruck.com -- I'm supporting these guys?

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24185 on: June 01, 2023, 06:29:11 PM »
Huh, so when I'm shopping at felloffthebackofatruck.com -- I'm supporting these guys?
Apparently so. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24186 on: June 01, 2023, 06:43:18 PM »
Is that a real website? lol
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24187 on: June 01, 2023, 06:50:06 PM »
The situation you described is very unusual.

For one thing, the heating element typically draws a LOT more juice than the motor so if it was a weak breaker it would still almost certainly work on the no-heat air fluff setting.

The motor itself should hit it's maximum draw when starting up*. Thus, if the motor was going to pop the breaker it would ordinarily do it on start-up, not a couple seconds later.

Dryer motors are usually 120v but the heating element is 240v so the motor itself is only using one half of the circuit.

Replacing the breaker isn't terribly difficult, you should be able to get one at any HD/Lowes, and that would save you some time diagnostically because you could at least rule that out.

*Example:
I've run into a situation multiple times where the kitchen breaker will trip if the refrigerator kicks on while the toaster or toaster oven is on. However, if you start up the toaster while the refrigerator is already running, no problem. The situation is basically this:
  • Toaster draws 1,200 Watts. At 120V that is 10 Amps (Amps*Volts=Watts).
  • Refrigerator draws 480 Watts running but 720 Watts on start-up. At 120V that is 4/6 Amps.
  • The combined draw is thus 14 Amps when the Refrigerator is running and 16 Amps when the refrigerator starts up.
  • If this is a 15 Amp breaker (cheaper because you can use smaller, 14 GA wire instead of larger 12 GA wire) then it will trip if the refrigerator kicks on while the toaster is on but NOT if you start the toaster after the refrigerator starts.


Yup, you're describing motor inrush current or locked rotor current.  Can sometimes be up to 20x more than normal operating current at regular operating speeds.

https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/understanding-motor-starting-inrush-currents-nec-article-430-52/#:~:text=Inrush%20current%2C%20also%20referred%20to,switching%20on)%20of%20the%20motor.



betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24188 on: June 01, 2023, 06:53:01 PM »
Is that a real website? lol
Of course not. It was the joke that my buddies and I had whenever anyone claimed they got a good deal in the late 90s when the "dotcom boom" was in full swing. 

"Man, this thing retails for $200 and I got it for $100!"
"What, didja get that from felloffthebackofatruck.com???"

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24189 on: June 01, 2023, 07:04:32 PM »
Yup, you're describing motor inrush current or locked rotor current.  Can sometimes be up to 20x more than normal operating current at regular operating speeds.

https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/understanding-motor-starting-inrush-currents-nec-article-430-52/#:~:text=Inrush%20current%2C%20also%20referred%20to,switching%20on)%20of%20the%20motor.
Yep. And although it's not motor-related, I have two real-world examples from my own industry where inrush current or high instantaneous current draw was causing device failures--but NOT to the device requiring that current. Because while you'd hope that a new device that's plugged in get its power from the power supply, it doesn't care if it gets power from wherever charge exists. I.e. in both cases, the addition of a massive power suck on the bus triggered (in one case) a reverse current protection circuit in a device that caused issues, and (another case) a localized low-voltage brownout situation on another device on a power cable that services multiple devices. 

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24190 on: June 01, 2023, 07:46:49 PM »
Huh, so when I'm shopping at felloffthebackofatruck.com -- I'm supporting these guys?
But those deals! You used to have to go to a flea market for those

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #24191 on: June 01, 2023, 08:22:42 PM »
Back in the 80s/90s, were dudes selling speakers out of the back of a white van a thing in your area, too?

 

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