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Topic: In other news ...

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13538 on: February 25, 2022, 10:58:56 AM »
I guess we won't really know unless/until an actual NATO member is attacked and Article V is invoked.
we don't need to look that far.

US already gave Ukraine security/defense assurances as a signatory to the Budapest Memorandum in 1994. A deal was brokered for Ukraine - which at the time had the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the entire world - to completely disarm and become a signatory to the NPT - and in exchange Ukraine's sovereignty, borders, and territorial integrity was to remain intact and secure and that the US would guarantee that security. It's not quite Article V of NATO, but the US has weaseled out of living up to their word- but that's just par for the course for us.

Ukraine has effectively been a US colony post the US-backed 2014 coup, and we still didn't come to their defense in 2014. Putin saw this which is probably we he figured if he takes it a step further now with invasion we still won't send troops into Ukraine.

We're partly responsible for Putin even coming into power. The US literally rigged Yeltsin's election in '96 and then bragged about it afterwards. Yeltsin was Clinton's boy-toy and a client of the US. And who did Yeltsin hand pick as his successor in 1999? Ol' Vlady P.

This is why I say- US needs to stay out of foreign countries internal affairs. It always has blowback which just winds up biting us in the ass. And why I found it absolutely hilarious when morons freaked out about the 2016 election over $100,000 worth of facebook ads and twitter trolls lol.

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13539 on: February 25, 2022, 11:04:23 AM »
All of that and yet my statement remains valid and true.

We won't really know unless/until an actual NATO member is attacked and Article V is invoked.

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13540 on: February 25, 2022, 11:05:08 AM »
doesn't seem to me that NATO does much regardless of membership

adding or subtracting would make much difference?
well, subtracting the good ol US of A would make a difference

NATO would be a smaller nothing
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13541 on: February 25, 2022, 11:05:39 AM »

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t0zq2u/taliban_calls_on_russia_and_ukraine_to_end_crisis/

welp, this day couldn't have started off anymore confusing.

Not one to defend the Taliban, but as far as I can tell the Taliban never really were outward aggressors- they aren't exactly ISIS looking to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate. They are definitely total shitbags but they were fighting the US to regain control of their own country. Maybe they identify with Ukraine trying to repel the foreign invader?

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13542 on: February 25, 2022, 11:08:56 AM »
Not one to defend the Taliban, but as far as I can tell the Taliban never really were outward aggressors- they aren't exactly ISIS looking to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate. They are definitely total shitbags but they were fighting the US to regain control of their own country. Maybe they identify with Ukraine trying to repel the foreign invader?

There could be something to that, but you can't pretend that harboring and fostering terrorists isn't a form of outward aggression.

Taliban are hypocritical dickfaces, same as most everyone else.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13543 on: February 25, 2022, 11:10:32 AM »
All of that and yet my statement remains valid and true.

We won't really know unless/until an actual NATO member is attacked and Article V is invoked.
of course that's true, it's a statement of fact.

My guess is the US would weasel it's way out- like they always do- we do what benefits us, when it benefits us- period, but who the hell knows?

Part of why NATO is so dangerous and expanding NATO is so dangerous is Article V. Has serious potential to start WWIII. I'd like to not start WWIII. Article V has only been invoked once by the US after 9/11.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 11:29:12 AM by Mdot21 »

rolltidefan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13544 on: February 25, 2022, 11:26:32 AM »
Good point. Also- interesting to think about the interpretation of what constitutes an “attack “ and who would actually invoke article 5.  Does a cyber attack count- for example?
probably depends on what's attacked, too. some non-essential gov stuff, minor utilities or something? we likely respond inkind. full bore attack on military and fed gov? gonna get ugly, imo.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13545 on: February 25, 2022, 11:28:33 AM »
There could be something to that, but you can't pretend that harboring and fostering terrorists isn't a form of outward aggression.

Taliban are hypocritical dickfaces, same as most everyone else.
yes, I'm well aware that they were harboring Bin Laden and his terrorist group. US demanded the Taliban hand Bin Laden over, the Taliban refused to hand him over unless the US gov't provided them proof Bin Laden orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. Well, that didn't go over too well with the US so they bombed and invaded Afghanistan in an attempt to capture Bin Laden- not overthrow the Taliban. However the war aims kept changing and shifting over the months and years, and for some reason that is beyond my comprehension the US bombed the shit out of them, invaded, and occupied their country for 20+ years and then installed and propped up a hilariously corrupt, criminal puppet government which collapsed in a matter of weeks once we finally left.

And by the way when Bush II was close to zeroing in on Bin Laden and actually capturing the guy- and then he goes the full retard that he is and starts an illegal war- based on complete fabrication and outright lies- and invades Iraq who (a) had nothing to do with 9/11 or AQ and (b) had no WMD's. Bush II was even asked about Bin Laden after the invasion of Iraq and said something along the lines of "I don't think about him that much anymore". WHAT?

Btw Bin Laden was found and killed hiding out in Pakistan - he had been living there for at least 5+ years - an "ally" of ours that we give billions of dollars to every single year in aid. He was being hidden by the ISI and there are even allegations that the Saudis (our mideast BFF's!) had been paying ISI to keep him. Seems like a lot of our "allies" in that region really suck.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13546 on: February 25, 2022, 11:40:37 AM »

thousands of Russians in 53 different cities protesting Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine. He'll crack down on them no doubt- but I do wonder if this could be the beginning of the end for him. 


https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1496978624263696390?s=20&t=5sdb3vG7E2O9zwEX-tb-Fg


Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13548 on: February 25, 2022, 11:43:27 AM »
Hell, Louis CK has his issues right now, but I dont think he NEEDS the work.  And he is doing a show in Kiev tonight

https://twitter.com/lunarssr/status/1497250529059041280?s=20&t=5sdb3vG7E2O9zwEX-tb-Fg

Honestbuckeye

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13549 on: February 25, 2022, 11:43:56 AM »
There could be something to that, but you can't pretend that harboring and fostering terrorists isn't a form of outward aggression.

Taliban are hypocritical dickfaces, same as most everyone else.
Thanks Utee. I always wondered if “ dickfaces” was one word or two.  😂😂
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13550 on: February 25, 2022, 11:53:17 AM »
Thanks Utee. I always wondered if “ dickfaces” was one word or two.  😂😂
we Texans know shit like that
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #13551 on: February 25, 2022, 11:54:11 AM »
Ukraine President says they've stopped the Russian advance in most directions but the fight continues.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/25/ukraine-zelenskyy-russian-advance-stopped-in-most-directions.html

 

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