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Topic: In other news ...

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11998 on: January 31, 2022, 10:37:40 PM »
the words left and right in terms of political discourse have almost lost all their meaning. the "left" or "liberals" have shifted drastically. Todays "liberal" or "left" is basically a Republican from 30-40 years ago. The "liberals" are for war, for tax cuts, for censorship, for assaults on journalism & whistleblowers, for big business. Shit is crazy.

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #11999 on: January 31, 2022, 10:42:44 PM »
This Just In......


Biden Warns Russia That If They Invade Ukraine, 

America Will Evacuate Haphazardly And Leave $86 Billion In Weapons Behind



They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12000 on: February 01, 2022, 02:18:39 AM »
I think this would be a bit inaccurate. Twitter is whatever echo chamber you build for yourself. Even if it was predominantly lefty (which I'd bet was a mild overstatement), a person cannot consume the tweets of even a million people, let alone more than that.

So it can be a righty echo chamber, communist echo chamber, Nazi echo chamber, and perhaps most seriously in need of government intervention, a Texas Longhorns echo chamber. It is what you build of it (and in truth is probably most prominently trash or nonsense stolen from someone else)
My assertion is that righties are less likely to be on Twitter at all.  Therefore it invariably becomes a lefty echo chamber.  Age is a fairly large part of this.  I admitted this is anecdotal but it absolutely holds true among the people I know. Older people don't do twiitter at all, and they're the more conservative bunch.  I'm confident and comfortable that a scientific study would prove that out.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12001 on: February 01, 2022, 06:14:56 AM »
The only time I see Twitter is when someone cites a tweet as an example of how dumb Person X is.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12002 on: February 01, 2022, 07:07:46 AM »
Whatever became of "Net Neutrality"?  A few years back, some claimed this was the end of the world and would alter the internet massively.  I didn't notice.

Then there was the Fairness Doctrine which also went away.  It basically required speech be hosted on news casts.  What I saw was a news opinion show would have one person articulate what they thought and then some idiot try to explain the other side, it could be laughable, but they could claim they presented both sides, one well done, and one done very poorly.

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12003 on: February 01, 2022, 07:23:26 AM »

"I disapprove of promiscuous women and drunks" 
And I thought we were friends
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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12004 on: February 01, 2022, 08:22:26 AM »
I think this would be a bit inaccurate. Twitter is whatever echo chamber you build for yourself. Even if it was predominantly lefty (which I'd bet was a mild overstatement), a person cannot consume the tweets of even a million people, let alone more than that.

So it can be a righty echo chamber, communist echo chamber, Nazi echo chamber, and perhaps most seriously in need of government intervention, a Texas Longhorns echo chamber. It is what you build of it (and in truth is probably most prominently trash or nonsense stolen from someone else)
How much you wanna bet?
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847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12005 on: February 01, 2022, 08:24:04 AM »
My assertion is that righties are less likely to be on Twitter at all.  Therefore it invariably becomes a lefty echo chamber.  Age is a fairly large part of this.  I admitted this is anecdotal but it absolutely holds true among the people I know. Older people don't do twiitter at all, and they're the more conservative bunch.  I'm confident and comfortable that a scientific study would prove that out.
Indoctrination wasn't a thing.
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bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12006 on: February 01, 2022, 08:34:25 AM »
My assertion is that righties are less likely to be on Twitter at all.  Therefore it invariably becomes a lefty echo chamber.  Age is a fairly large part of this.  I admitted this is anecdotal but it absolutely holds true among the people I know. Older people don't do twiitter at all, and they're the more conservative bunch.  I'm confident and comfortable that a scientific study would prove that out.
This doesn't follow, though, for two reasons.

1. It ignores both apolitical and mostly apolitical posters, of which there are many
2. It implies that there's some central narrative and feel to a space where millions are firing off nonsense into the void. 

I suppose we might be speaking about "echo chambers" differently. Like, if it can be a left echo chamber, but I can also easily build a right-wing echo chamber within it, does that defeat it being an overall echo chamber? 

(This leads to another logical question, which I think we'd find some agreement on. You point out, the folks of intermediate age are more on twitter, older folks on facebook. Would that means Facebook is a conservative echo chamber? Of course not)

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12007 on: February 01, 2022, 08:37:49 AM »
How many here follow anyone on Twitter?  I don't have any opinion about whether it leans L or R overall, and I'd guess much of it is apolitical.

What nonfollowers "see" is what someone else posts from there.

bayareabadger

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12008 on: February 01, 2022, 08:40:26 AM »
How much you wanna bet?
Not much, especially because "predominantly" isn't a percentage and overstated is built on vague estimations of what someone else means. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12009 on: February 01, 2022, 08:45:57 AM »
The idolization of free speech in the United States (theconversation.com)

I've been reading a number of discussion pieces on free speech, some are interesting, to me.  

From a strict literal perspective, free-speech protection thus initially concerned only laws passed by Congress. Over time, however, the Supreme Court extended this protection to other forms of governmental power, from the federal to local and across all three branches: legislative, executive and judicial. It should be noted in passing that the First amendment doesn’t address or prevent censorship imposed by private individuals and private businesses who can apply their freedom of commerce as they see fit.
Contrary to what is often assumed, the current interpretation of the First Amendment is relatively recent. For a long time, there were many restrictions to free speech. This was in part due to different societal norms, particularly in terms of sexual morality (see the Comstock Acts for instance). But there were also greater restrictions of political speech in what was considered interests of the State, like the Espionage Act of 1917. Thus, during the two world wars and at the beginning of the Cold War, the Supreme Court upheld judgments against dissidents who opposed conscription or advocated revolutionary socialism or communism (as in Schenck v. United States, 1919, or Dennis v. United States, 1951).

Everything changed with the Warren Court (1953-1969) due to a growing support for speech related to civil rights and the war in Vietnam. Paradoxically, the liberal interpretation of the First Amendment also provided protection for hate speech spurred by the Ku Klux Klan, as stated in Brandenburg v. Ohio, a 1969 decision that remains the standard for allowing extreme speech. Since then, freedom of speech in all its forms has generally been protected, including hate speech, unless there are specific exceptions.

The limits of free speech today
One of the lessons of the history of free speech in the United States is that standards are not set in stone. They do change as society changes and may yet change again.
Free speech is not absolute – US law does recognize a number of important restrictions to free speech. These include obscenity, fraud, child pornography, harassment, incitement to illegal conduct and imminent lawless action, true threats, and commercial speech such as advertising, copyright or patent rights.
Political speech, on the other hand, is one of the most protected categories. The Supreme Court even went so far as to conclude that campaign spending limits represent a violation of freedom of expression because it would restrict the financial means to express an opinion (as first ruled in Buckley v. Valeo, 1976, and then more recently and controversially in Citizens United, 2010).
As for the role that Donald Trump played in the months leading up to January 6 and on the day itself, the question still to be answered is the relationship between his false claims and harsh rhetoric and the attack on the US Capitol that immediately followed. Was his speech protected by the First Amendment? According to Brandenburg v. Ohio, freedom of speech allows “advocacy of the use of force” or “lawless acts” unless it is “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action” and is “likely to incite or produce such action”.

Because these words can be up to interpretation, context is everything. The assessment of the context in which the insurrection took place will allow for what is called the “Brandenburg test” to determine whether Trump’s words were aimed at encouraging his supporters to commit a crime and advocating an offense that is both imminent and likely to occur.

A marketplace of ideas?
The Brandenburg ruling is important. It is what made it legal for neo-Nazis to march with swastika crosses in Charlottesville in 2017 or for Rush Limbaugh to use misogynistic, homophobic, racist and conspiracy-laden language during his long career. This decision is based on the principle that the competition of ideas in a free and transparent public discourse will allow people to freely decide what they want to believe.



847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12010 on: February 01, 2022, 08:50:49 AM »
Not much, especially because "predominantly" isn't a percentage and overstated is built on vague estimations of what someone else means.
Prediction: The next person to be banned from Twitter for spreading misinformation will not be from the left.




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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #12011 on: February 01, 2022, 08:52:45 AM »
The question I posed relates to when a technical issue poses a risk to society, take climate change as an example (regardless of whether you think it's a real threat or not).

I submit developing a sound technical opinion on climate change and what we should do about it is well beyond the capacity of even technically trained people (save those few who are immersed in it as a career).  What 'we' do of course is form an opinion first and then seek only items aligned with said opinion, disparaging anything else.  When I was working, I had Science and Nature come across my desk and I'd try and read articles on CC in them, it was tough going indeed, a lot of jargon, and these are intended to be broad audience journals (in the science community).  Do I have an opinion on how big a threat it is?  Not really, I know enough to know I don't know.  (I spent some time looking into what could be done about it, but that's separate.)

So, in a hypothetical consider some highly technical issue, "X", where the actions needed are indeed critical to the well being of Society, but there are folks disparaging and minimizing it to the point many believe them, and that prevents "society" from taking needed steps to combat "X".  I think in reality it means little would get done, sort of like what is in "Don't Look Up", a lot of pandering and pretending and silliness to gain political favor.

And of course the other side is the "cure" could be worse than the ailment, in theory, though if the ailment is a planetary ending disaster of that movie, well, we're screwed.

 

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