Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

When has the swamp ever been dry?  I'll hang up and listen.

it's never been dry, but it's also NEVER been this bad. You can thank the explosion of lobbyists and money infiltrating politics. 

Tell me about it.

Our youngest served two tours in 'stan, and he know wonders why.

The US withdrawal brought the crappy little country right back to where it all started. 20 years of nothing. Lives lost. Trillions spent. Taliban still there, and more well-armed than they ever were thanks to our graciousness.

For NOTHING.

At least our son came home.

That's all that matters. Glad your son is home safe. He's a hero. Anyone that joins the military and serves this country is. As for the politicians and generals which send soldiers into harms way for no obvious justifiable reasons- yeah, they can go f**k themselves.

We need to be done with the nation building business. I hope we are.

Mind our own beeswax.

Amen. Nation building is an exercise in futility. Foreign countries DO NOT want us on their soil. End of story. Defeating an enemy in combat is one thing. Invading and occupying entire countries for no justifiable reason is another. 

And rich countries can pay for their own defense. The United States is not the world police. There is video of Trump talking about this in the 80s. He was talking about Western Europe and South Korea and Japan- correctly pointing out that these are all highly wealthy countries that rip off the United States and we continue pay for their defense. He said they should pay for their own defense or that we should bill them and charge them cost plus fees for providing them defense. Dude was f**king right. 

I'd also LOVE to end military aid to rich nations like Israel, which is really just a government welfare program for US based defense contractors. There is more money spent on welfare for corporations and defense contractors than there are on the people. This is insanity.

And Trump was RIGHT to want to repair relations with Russia. This new idiot we have is inflaming tensions with Russia and inching us closer to a war with a country that has a real army and oh only half of the worlds nuclear weapons. Russia is not a bunch of cavemen goat herders in a 3rd world shithole. They can put up a real fight. When is the last time the US fought a war vs someone that could actually fight? World War II. Every war and invasion since then has been vs a bunch of little shithole 3rd world poor countries.

Then why order them out? That's a shitty message to send.

I'm not convinced that the government would get them out.

See: Afghanistan withdrawal.

The world is watching. And laughing.

why order them out? because we have f**king MORONS running the unelected bureaucracy.

I'd like to point out that US intelligence has infiltrated the mainstream media and the mainstream media are nothing but propaganda for the establishment. If media is saying US intelligence is saying Putin is invading Russia, then take it to the bank it's not happening. These are the same lying pieces of shit that said there was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq (whoops!), that Donald Trump was a Russian agent (LOL), that Assad used chemical weapons on his own people (he didn't), and that Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian intelligence disinformation (it wasn't). Basically a great rule of thumb is to believe the opposite of what these sack of shit idiots say.

NATO and the EU is the reason why there hasn't been a wholesale land war in Europe since 1945.

What did the EU do?

The Czechs hate them some Russia and are actively denouncing them, quite a bit more than the majority of their western neighbors.  They've been sending aid to Ukraine for quite a while now.  They don't have much military might, but they know better than most what an imperialistic Russia looks like and they'll do whatever they can to help prevent it ever happening again.

NATO and the EU is the reason why there hasn't been a wholesale land war in Europe since 1945.

EU, not seeing any evidence of that. EU wasn't formed until '93. USSR was dead by then. NATO, sure. But that was designed to keep the Soviets at bay. The USSR dissolved in 1991. And with it the threat for war in Europe. 

NATO is a relic of that past that the US should finally kill. It's not worth our money nor our precious American lives. End it.