header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: In other news ...

 (Read 1012778 times)

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17168
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2716 on: February 17, 2021, 04:18:51 PM »

-Why we cannot believe anything they say:
[font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif][font=Segoe UI, Segoe UI Web (West European), Segoe UI, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, sans-serif]A politician finally breaks down and visits a remote northern state Indian reservation.
With news crews following him around as they tour the place,the senator asks the chief if there was anything the people need.
 
"Well," says the chief, "We have three very important needs:
First, we have a medical clinic…. but no doctor."
 
The senator whips out his cell phone; dials a number;
talks to somebody for two minutes…. and then hangs up.
"I've pulled some strings. Your doctor will arrive in a few days.  Now what was the second problem?"

"We have no way to get clean water.   The local mining operation has poisoned the water our people have been drinking for thousands of years.  We've been flying bottled water in, and it's terribly expensive."

Once again, the senator whips out his cell phone; dials a number; yells into the phone for a few minutes….. and then hangs up.  "The mine has been shut down, and the owner is being billed for setting up a purification plant for your people.

Now what was that third problem?"
"We have no cell phone reception up here," the chief says.
[/font][/font]

















Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18899
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2717 on: February 17, 2021, 07:31:06 PM »

I know it seems like it's easy technically and logistically--but I suspect it's FAR more complex than you are suggesting. Heck, based on just the top-level issues I can envision, I would almost say I *know* it's far more complex than you're suggesting.
I understand, but I'd add in the word "now."  
.
I just figure we're like a 3-month old baby right now when it comes to the lifetime of how widespread and total electric transportation will be.  We're back in 1907 cranking the front of our motor carriage.  I think what' I'm suggesting will be simpler and easier in the near future.  And I could be wrong.  
Time will tell.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71628
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2718 on: February 18, 2021, 06:41:51 AM »
Folks have noted some rather daunting challenges with battery swaps as a concept.  Someone could address those issues by suggesting some technological innovation that plausibly could resolve them.  The obvious one is how batteries today are integral parts of the frame and generate rigidity which is critical in cars.

A big change in cars of today versus say 1970 is frame rigidity.  It's probably not as significant as fuel injection and cats and electronics, but it's up there in terms of how a car performs on the highway.


MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17168
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2719 on: February 18, 2021, 09:28:02 AM »


Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25280
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2720 on: February 18, 2021, 09:28:50 AM »
Definitely drinking too much these days.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18899
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2721 on: February 18, 2021, 10:43:47 AM »
Folks have noted some rather daunting challenges with battery swaps as a concept.  Someone could address those issues by suggesting some technological innovation that plausibly could resolve them.  The obvious one is how batteries today are integral parts of the frame and generate rigidity which is critical in cars.

A big change in cars of today versus say 1970 is frame rigidity.  It's probably not as significant as fuel injection and cats and electronics, but it's up there in terms of how a car performs on the highway.


All of this could be moot - the frame rigidity talk made me think, "hey, when none of us even driving the vehicles, safety won't matter as much."  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12222
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2722 on: February 18, 2021, 11:30:21 AM »
All of this could be moot - the frame rigidity talk made me think, "hey, when none of us even driving the vehicles, safety won't matter as much." 
Frame rigidity isn't nearly as much for safety as for comfort of the occupants, as I understand it. Obviously also for handling performance, which admittedly will matter less when the cars are driven by computers and performance is less of an issue.

A rigid frame allows the tires, springs and shocks to absorb and dampen the bumps, cracks, and other disturbances on the road. Prior to unibody construction and stiff frames, those road changes would transmit through the entire car.

I understand, but I'd add in the word "now." 
.
I just figure we're like a 3-month old baby right now when it comes to the lifetime of how widespread and total electric transportation will be.  We're back in 1907 cranking the front of our motor carriage.  I think what' I'm suggesting will be simpler and easier in the near future.  And I could be wrong. 
Time will tell.
To be honest, this is a constant thought I hear from people with no background in engineering or other "innovative" pursuits, that someone smart will just figure it out. 

There's a degree to which that's true... It's amazing what humanity has invented over the last century and a half. 

But there are also limits. We've been "promised" a future full of flying cars since at least the 1950s/1960s. And we still don't have them. I've explained here the problem: energy. It takes zero energy to keep a car at rest on the road. Gravity pulls it down. The earth pushes it up. You're in stasis. It takes TONS of energy to keep a car aloft. Gravity pulls it down. You need to generate lift to push it up. We've not found ANY means to generate lift that doesn't use significantly more energy to operate a vehicle in the air than on the ground. In fact, we're no so much more energy-conscious that modern cars shut off their engines when they stop to save fuel. 

It's not to say that you're wrong--maybe some fantastic technology will come around and we'll have battery swaps. 

But right now we have major headwinds. Battery packs between manufacturers (and even between vehicle lines within a single manufacturer) are not standardized in any way. Battery packs weigh thousands of pounds, so there are all sorts of safety/liability concerns with a swap. And to enable battery swaps, as stated requires completely redesigning cars around a swap technology, which means adding rigidity (i.e. weight) elsewhere, making sure that the battery terminals are good for X number of insertions, that the non-fixed battery packs can stand up to the vibration, to the elements, etc that aren't as big of an issue in a fixed configuration, etc. 

All the while, the competition (charging infrastructure) is rapidly maturing to the point where you can add significant amounts of charge in very short (<30 min) timeframes, and most BEV owners charge at home otherwise so don't need rapid charging and it's only an issue on road trips. 

So you can hand-wave away ALL of the challenges and the rapid improvement of the alternative and say "well they'll just figure it out"... Or you can look at it and say maybe someday we'll have it, but the tea leaves are pointing the opposite direction for all the reasons we've already told you. 

I'm not saying we'll never have battery swaps. I'm saying that based on what I see, it's not on a time horizon where I see the logistical problems being an easier solution than rapid charging for the foreseeable future. 

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9345
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2723 on: February 18, 2021, 11:44:55 AM »
relax we will invent cold fusion and all our energy problems will be solved

If OAM can rely on stuff yet to be invented then count me in for cold fusion
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18899
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2724 on: February 18, 2021, 12:30:34 PM »
Hardy-har har.......you're right, but it's also correct to rely on the inevitable advances we make - nearly exponentially.  The only problem is, we don't know WHICH advances will occur and where.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71628
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2725 on: February 18, 2021, 02:11:38 PM »
As noted above, frame rigidity is a very significant item for a personal vehicle in terms of comfort and handling, it matters just the same if a computer drives the vehicle.

It's immediately noticeable if you drive some 1960s car with a bit of verve.  Get in a V8 1966 Camaro and see how the frame twists with a bump or hard cornering.  Of course, the suspensions then were crude as well and that too is a factor.

It seems to me that fast charging is pretty decent now even if my brilliantly flawed notion was hogwash.


betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12222
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2726 on: February 18, 2021, 02:39:25 PM »
It's immediately noticeable if you drive some 1960s car with a bit of verve.  Get in a V8 1966 Camaro and see how the frame twists with a bump or hard cornering.  Of course, the suspensions then were crude as well and that too is a factor.
Not to mention tire differences over the last 55 years lol... 

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18899
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2727 on: February 18, 2021, 02:40:32 PM »
I have no doubt the charging tech is good now and will be great, but I have less doubt about the masses being impatient.
.
The time it takes (or will take) to charge a car is perfectly acceptable in a vacuum, but when people are used to filling up their car with gas in 3 minutes, then a half hour to charge it becomes a problem.

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71628
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2728 on: February 18, 2021, 02:42:39 PM »
I am amazed how much better tires are even from 20 years ago, much less 40.  Obviously radial tires were a sea change, but tires keep getting better when I would have guessed we were near the top of the S curve.

I'm also amazed how much better engines are today.


Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71628
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: In other news ...
« Reply #2729 on: February 18, 2021, 02:44:34 PM »
It's not much of an issue now because EVs far more often are used to drive 50 miles in a day, or so.

Range anxiety becomes a factor for long trips.  For me personally, if I drive 300 miles, I'm ready for lunch or something.  Initial cost is still an issue.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.