In other news (apolitical thread)...

[847badgerfan]

[Riffraft]

Snow?  Gonna hit 75 today.  Beautiful winter weather.

85 today

[NorthernOhioBuckeye]

I've been involved in managing rental property for almost 50 years so I have a LOT of experience with water heaters and my take is that it is extremely random. I have replaced 40 year old units and I've replaced five year old units.

I just replaced my hot water heater last week. It was 30 yrs old.

[NorthernOhioBuckeye]

I like the picture and quality on Samsung TVs, but the native app for managing streaming is complete garbage, and that's a problem.  I have a TCL Roku TV in the upstairs game room and although the picture isn't quite as good, and it's probably not going to last as long, the Roku interface is just lightyears better.

Really? I have 2 Samsung tv's and absolutely love the simplicity of the user interface. It is very easy to add apps, arrange them on the screen and access them. Even my wife can do it. 

[utee94]

Really? I have 2 Samsung tv's and absolutely love the simplicity of the user interface. It is very easy to add apps, arrange them on the screen and access them. Even my wife can do it.

Roku is a way better interface.  Also, Samsung native app stopped supporting updates to several streaming services at one time, including ESPN+.  They get in battles with other OEMs like Sony, over which streaming services they're going to maintain support.  They pitched a fit at one point, dropped a couple of things I needed, and I've since abandoned them forever.

A 3rd party streaming interface provider like Roku knows it's in its best interest to maintain support for ALL of them and keep them constantly updated, since their product is the interface rather than the television hardware.

Of course Roku is now branding TVs on its own using ODMs, but the interface is still their key, unique bit of IP.  The TVs are just their way of cutting out the middlemen in getting their interface into user households.

[MikeDeTiger]

How does Samsung getting in fights with Sony affect their maintenance of, say, Netflix, or Spotify? 

I've used Roku devices, mainly at Airbnb's, probably.  Maybe it's just the lack of familiarity, but I found it clunky compared to the Firestick interface, which I've used for several years now.  Only thing with Firesticks is they lack the processing power of a more robust machine, and sometimes it shows in its menu lag.  I would imagine the FireTV Cubes solve that nicely, but that seems like a lot of money for something that really doesn't do anything more than the stick can do.  

[847badgerfan]

I had Roku as well, and now Firesticks. I like the latter better. Also, my second outdoor TV is a smaller Fire TV. The main is a Samsung with the stick. They work the same.

[betarhoalphadelta]

IMHO the one issue I have with a Fire Stick, or an Apple TV, or a Google Chromecast (which I guess is now defunct?) is that these types of interfaces, as utee mentions w/ Samsung, have a vested interest in pushing their own product. I.e. the Fire Stick wants to push Prime Video, the Apple TV obviously Apple TV+, and Google pushing YouTube / YTTV. 

Whereas Roku is by definition independent and has a vested interest in supporting everything equally. And their value proposition has to be to produce something that's better than the competition because it's not some loss leader for content--the box is the product. 

IMHO this is similar to the TiVo days. TiVo was the absolute best DVR / interface I've ever had. Because if you have to go buy a $300 TiVo box, it better be DAMNED good compared to the DVR that your cable/satellite company ships you, or you're not going to spend extra for it. 

[MikeDeTiger]

In theory, I see what you're saying.  In practice, I've only ever seen Amazon get into a spat with Google, when at one point the Firesticks did not offer YouTube or YouTube TV.  But that was years ago. 

As I understand it, Prime Video is a loss leader itself for Prime subscriptions and Amazon (Bezos) has viewed it as somewhat of a vanity project.  If so, that would explain to me why the Fire products have never ditched Hulu, Netflix, Max, Disney+, etc.  To the contrary, I believe, you can get all those things as add-ons with your Prime subscription for the exact same price, so they have seemed to be committed as a platform and not just a funnel for their own streaming service. 

I do wonder if that's changing, or will change.  I notice that regular Amazon Prime subscriptions only gets you Prime Video content with commercials now.  If you want to drop the commercials you have to pay extra.  

[utee94]

I've never used Firestick so can't comment on it.  But I am wary of it for the reasons bwar outlined.  I've never found the Roku interface to be "clunky" but rather I've found it to be significantly superior to Samsung and Sony native apps, and vastly superior to AppleTV.

To answer a question further up, Sony and Samsung have, at times, maneuvered to be the sole television OEM provider of one or other various streaming services.  And even when they're not maneuvering to cut out their competitors, they still haven't shown to be consistent in providing updates and support for the various streaming apps they carry. They let their apps become outdated because they don't value all of the streaming platforms.  Their core business is to manufacture and sell television hardware, not apps.  Theoretically they could lose favor with consumers if they don't adequately maintain the offerings in their native apps but, as has been proven on this forum and in the market at large, users will realistically just go purchase a Roku or Firestick, so the television manufacturers have no incentive to provide updated and well supported native apps for streaming services. Roku on the other hand, can not ever do that, their value proposition is that they support everything equally, and agnostically.

[utee94]

In theory, I see what you're saying.  In practice, I've only ever seen Amazon get into a spat with Google, when at one point the Firesticks did not offer YouTube or YouTube TV.  But that was years ago. 

The fact that it has ever happened at all, both with Amazon and with Sony and Samsung, is precisely why I'm wary that it will happen again.

[betarhoalphadelta]

In theory, I see what you're saying.  In practice, I've only ever seen Amazon get into a spat with Google, when at one point the Firesticks did not offer YouTube or YouTube TV.  But that was years ago. 

As I understand it, Prime Video is a loss leader itself for Prime subscriptions and Amazon (Bezos) has viewed it as somewhat of a vanity project.  If so, that would explain to me why the Fire products have never ditched Hulu, Netflix, Max, Disney+, etc.  To the contrary, I believe, you can get all those things as add-ons with your Prime subscription for the exact same price, so they have seemed to be committed as a platform and not just a funnel for their own streaming service. 

I do wonder if that's changing, or will change.  I notice that regular Amazon Prime subscriptions only gets you Prime Video content with commercials now.  If you want to drop the commercials you have to pay extra. 

I thought basically all of Amazon is a loss leader for AWS 

That said, I do see that they might have an interest in selling you the subscriptions to these other services THROUGH your Amazon account, and obviously they'll have negotiated some sort of a cut with the service for processing the payments through to them. So it might be a conflict of interest for them to simultaneously nerf the functionality of those competitors...

[utee94]

I thought basically all of Amazon is a loss leader for AWS

That said, I do see that they might have an interest in selling you the subscriptions to these other services THROUGH your Amazon account, and obviously they'll have negotiated some sort of a cut with the service for processing the payments through to them. So it might be a conflict of interest for them to simultaneously nerf the functionality of those competitors...

As MDT pointed out, it's already happened once with Google and Amazon.  I have no faith that the underlying interests of such technological giants will remain aligned and, perhaps more importantly, that the massive egos of their owners/CEOs won't interfere with practical market considerations.  

[betarhoalphadelta]

I've never used Firestick so can't comment on it.  But I am wary of it for the reasons bwar outlined.  I've never found the Roku interface to be "clunky" but rather I've found it to be significantly superior to Samsung and Sony native apps, and vastly superior to AppleTV.

I've never objectively given the Apple TV interface a chance, because I always get so disgusted with the goddamned remote that I'm already angry any time we use the Apple TV and thus hate it. 

That said, the Apple TV is on the bedroom TV, and watching TV isn't the point of that room.