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Topic: In other news (apolitical thread)...

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FearlessF

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1988 on: August 01, 2025, 09:42:36 AM »
if the market in a place I'd like to retire would crash and the market here was good, I might be encouraged to sell & move.

buy low, sell high
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FearlessF

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1989 on: August 01, 2025, 09:48:04 AM »
However, there's another angle to this. A starter home out in the 'burbs might be more financially attainable, but it won't build as much equity and won't appreciate as quickly as a more expensive home in a more desirable location.

Especially for a young couple starting out, I'd almost prefer to see them "stretch" a bit on the house, even if it means driving older cars and eating out less, than I'd see them skimp on the house so they can afford better cars, more leisure, more gas for their dreary long commutes, etc. Because not only is that money that you're "paying yourself" in that it builds equity, that home in the more desirable area will likely grow in value faster and higher than the less desirable area.

For example, that house I bought in 2010 was certainly a financial stretch. But if I'd been able to keep it, considering the amount in principal I'd have paid down by now (14 years later) and the increase in value of the house, I'd probably be sitting on $750-800K in equity right now. Fast forward a few years to when my youngest graduates HS, and I might be able to cash out of that house for a million or more, and go buy elsewhere in the country like utee or Badge's neighborhoods for straight cash.

You mention your $44K vs $70K decision. Any idea what the relative values of those two houses are now, 36 years later?
oh, I agree with you on a better investment - if you can afford that investment w/o putting yerself in risk
I'd guess today, my place is worth around $200K and the other place is closer to $300K - similar ratio

a house/home is nearly always a helluva lot better investment than cars and other expenses - so I agree
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1990 on: August 01, 2025, 09:58:14 AM »
And the other thing I'd say is that for a young couple, stretching now doesn't mean it'll be a stretch forever. Your incomes are likely to go up; your mortgage doesn't. So you learn to live without that money today and get used to it, and that'll increase your gains in the future but feel like things are getting less expensive over time. 

Same with 401K. You tell a new grad to put the maximum that they can afford into it, and learn to live on the remainder. Because you won't miss spending what you never got used to spending, but then a decade (or 40 years) down the road, what they've got is going to be a BIG number. 


847badgerfan

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1991 on: August 01, 2025, 10:00:32 AM »
One problem with stretching for a home is that there is less money being pumped into the economy.

It's a delicate balance.
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utee94

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1992 on: August 01, 2025, 10:01:01 AM »
However, there's another angle to this. A starter home out in the 'burbs might be more financially attainable, but it won't build as much equity and won't appreciate as quickly as a more expensive home in a more desirable location.

Especially for a young couple starting out, I'd almost prefer to see them "stretch" a bit on the house, even if it means driving older cars and eating out less, than I'd see them skimp on the house so they can afford better cars, more leisure, more gas for their dreary long commutes, etc. Because not only is that money that you're "paying yourself" in that it builds equity, that home in the more desirable area will likely grow in value faster and higher than the less desirable area.

For example, that house I bought in 2010 was certainly a financial stretch. But if I'd been able to keep it, considering the amount in principal I'd have paid down by now (14 years later) and the increase in value of the house, I'd probably be sitting on $750-800K in equity right now. Fast forward a few years to when my youngest graduates HS, and I might be able to cash out of that house for a million or more, and go buy elsewhere in the country like utee or Badge's neighborhoods for straight cash.

You mention your $44K vs $70K decision. Any idea what the relative values of those two houses are now, 36 years later?
OK but that's a different discussion.  If you're talking about financially sound young people making financially sound decisions, that's fine, I agree with you and I fully support it.  But that's not what I'm getting at.

I'm addressing this idea-- this complaint-- that I consistently hear, that young people today simply can't afford to buy a house.  That it's practically impossible for them.   And the complaint is often accompanied by the accusation that people in my generation, and my parents' generation, just don't understand, because we had it so much easier.

I'm not denying that home prices seem to have outstripped inflation and that it's harder.

But I am challenging the idea that it's impossible.  The evidence cited for the plight of the young, tends to be those average home prices in any given metropolitan area, like I pulled up.  But even in the Austin metro which is considered expensive nationally (though nothing like California of course), I gave an example of a home that is affordable and is perfectly reasonable and acceptable as a starter home.  That was just the first one I pulled up, but in the same neighborhood there were several other houses in the $190K-$220K range.  None were huge or glamorous.  But all were the exact same distance from downtown Austin, that MY first house was.  Around 15 miles.

So even for young people that don't want to challenge themselves or stretch, they can still invest in a starter home rather than renting.  It might not be in the most desirable location-- my first home wasn't either-- but it's still possible.


FearlessF

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1993 on: August 01, 2025, 10:06:11 AM »
Ed Zachery

why am I agreeing with utee so often?!?!?

young folks and doomsdayers about the housing market and the fate of the economy whine and cry about interest rates and the impossible realty of owning your home
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utee94

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1994 on: August 01, 2025, 10:09:07 AM »

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1995 on: August 01, 2025, 10:11:09 AM »
We lived in Palatine before we moved here. Not seeing much affordable on this map, except maybe in the NE section, which is the main armpit of the town. Those cheaper ones in the NW section are in the other armpit. Those listings are all condos.

That one for $210K is also a condo. I lived in that same building out of college - I paid $58K for it in 1993 - but mine had a water view. This one has a parking lot view.

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utee94

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1996 on: August 01, 2025, 10:17:08 AM »
Well I mean, Manhattan has always been crazily expensive, too.

When I visited my then-girlfriend in NYC in 1994, she was living in a 500 sqft efficiency that had room for one queen size bed, one couch, and small kitchenette.  All were completely open to each other.  Back then, 30 years ago, she was paying $2,000 per month for it.  She had to split it with a roommate.  I can't even imagine what that costs now.

In some places it's not reasonable to think young people can afford to buy, because indeed even older people can't afford to buy.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1997 on: August 01, 2025, 10:18:07 AM »
Fair 'nuff, utee.

What I was riffing on was more the discussion between CD and Gigem about whether said young couple "should" prefer the cheaper house outside the city or the pricey condo in the city. And was quoting directly Fearless' post seeming to take Gigem's side of the discussion that "of course" someone should buy the cheaper starter home.

I was more looking at things where buying cheaper may mean less risk, but also less reward.

And even here in California, it's not as "impossible" as one might think. After all, I posted the cheapest condo in Mission Viejo at $420K. Given local incomes generally being WELL above those in the rest of the country, a young couple could start there. That was tiny (1bd/1ba, <500 sf), but when you get into the $500-600K range you get that second bedroom and more square footage, and now it's big enough for a young couple and an eventual baby. That's a LOT of money, but again incomes here are much higher than elsewhere.

And that's Mission Viejo. Said young couple get a lot more options if they're willing to accept some commute. You go out to Corona and you've got a whole different [cheaper] market. That commute sucks, and the weather sucks, but as you say it's not "impossible".

utee94

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1998 on: August 01, 2025, 10:18:29 AM »
Having said all that, Austin is crazy expensive, nobody can afford to buy, and nobody should ever move here.

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FearlessF

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #1999 on: August 01, 2025, 10:37:36 AM »
Duh, move to a house in Pflugerville
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #2000 on: August 01, 2025, 10:48:58 AM »
Duh, move to a house in Pflugerville
Better you than me, I ain't gonna move to that cheap dump.

;)

FearlessF

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Re: In other news (apolitical thread)...
« Reply #2001 on: August 01, 2025, 10:56:57 AM »
been lookin fer a cheap dump on a golf course for decades

and I've played Blackhawk Golf Club more than a few times

damned fire ants!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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