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Topic: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
(Read 5311 times)

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #70 on:** January 20, 2020, 07:15:28 PM »

Okay, at least I understand how you're wanting to compare, and it's fair for talking points.

But do you understand the trickiness of the comparison? You want to pit these two teams against each other in a hypothetical matchup. That's fun in hypothetical-land, where we just use the season numbers. In an actual game, you're talking about a singular moment in time when they play, and it absolutely makes a difference when you're talking about. This hypothetical matchup wouldn't take place over a season, it would take place over 4 hours. It would matter what 4 hours those are. That's all I was saying, and another reason it's hard beyond the point of reason to try and make comparisons. For the sake of argument, sure I can see why you're compelled to use seasonal stats, but that's just part of why the argument is pointless. Comparing seasons is different than a hypothetical game.

So I'll comfortably say 2019 LSU would struggle much more with 1995 Nebraska than November/December LSU would. Just how it is. No idea who wins either way, that's too much to think about one way or the other. Can only say Playoff LSU would have a better chance win or lose than mid-season LSU.

What I like about that '95 Huskers team is the near complete lack of mystery on offense. There was no confusion in teams' mind as to what was coming play by play, they were just completely powerless to stop it. That's impressive in a different way than an offense that does a lot of things and keeps you off balance. And those weren't just scrub teams they did it too, some of those teams were really good. It's easy to think a scheme that's been as figured out as the triple option wouldn't fare well now, but there were some pretty good ideas on defending it back then.....Nebraska was just flat better and didn't care.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #71 on:** January 20, 2020, 07:27:36 PM »

Get well MDT - best wishes/prayers

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #72 on:** January 20, 2020, 09:14:09 PM »

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 20, 2020, 07:15:28 PM

Okay, at least I understand how you're wanting to compare, and it's fair for talking points.

But do you understand the trickiness of the comparison? You want to pit these two teams against each other in a hypothetical matchup. That's fun in hypothetical-land, where we just use the season numbers. In an actual game, you're talking about a singular moment in time when they play, and it absolutely makes a difference when you're talking about. This hypothetical matchup wouldn't take place over a season, it would take place over 4 hours. It would matter what 4 hours those are. That's all I was saying, and another reason it's hard beyond the point of reason to try and make comparisons. For the sake of argument, sure I can see why you're compelled to use seasonal stats, but that's just part of why the argument is pointless. Comparing seasons is different than a hypothetical game. This is true, sure. However, I do think there's a connection between comparing seasons and a hypothetical game. Using the season stats, and assuming, say 1,000 game simulations, you'd come out with the average outcome - which could be used as the individual hypothetical game.

So I'll comfortably say 2019 LSU would struggle much more with 1995 Nebraska than November/December LSU would. Just how it is. No idea who wins either way, that's too much to think about one way or the other. Can only say Playoff LSU would have a better chance win or lose than mid-season LSU. This is fine, but it's also true from all teams in any season. And something that's true for everyone, to me, doesn't need to be accounted for or even considered.

What I like about that '95 Huskers team is the near complete lack of mystery on offense. There was no confusion in teams' mind as to what was coming play by play, they were just completely powerless to stop it. That's impressive in a different way than an offense that does a lot of things and keeps you off balance. And those weren't just scrub teams they did it too, some of those teams were really good. It's easy to think a scheme that's been as figured out as the triple option wouldn't fare well now, but there were some pretty good ideas on defending it back then.....Nebraska was just flat better and didn't care. I think LSU's passing game was the same way, by the end of the season. Just going by the results and the ultimate confidence Burrow had (with quotes, not just the eye of the tiger, lol), LSU knew the opponent wasn't going to stop them, no matter who it was.

CWSooner · « **Reply #73 on:** January 20, 2020, 11:18:02 PM »

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 20, 2020, 04:40:44 PM

Been going on 10+ years now, it's looking doubtful. The problem compounds because one major thing that stops so many daily activities leads to a much less active lifestyle, which then creates it's own problems with conditioning, body chemistry, and a host of other things, as I have learned.

Quote

On a very limited basis, I have been able to make some simple trips for a few days, even if I can't do much on them. We honeymooned last year in the hill country and made it back to Austin this year for our anniversary. Wife really likes the area and we'll probably keep that up.

Next time I'll try to meet up with utee to catch up. If he thinks I'm trolling him now, just wait til he sees me in person.

Of course by then Texas will have beaten LSU in Tiger Stadium, so the job is going to be exponentially harder.

I'm sorry that your prognosis isn't better than that. May you receive the serenity that will help you cope with whatever things beyond your control you face.
Utee definitely needs to be trolled.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #74 on:** January 21, 2020, 12:45:19 AM »

Sort of discovered a couple of very similar national champions that I doubt anyone has linked in their minds:
2004 USC
2006 Florida
.
04 USC
57/43 run/pass ratio, 8.2 yds per pass att, 4.7 yds per rush att, 5.7 allowed per pass att, 2.6 allowed per rush att
.
06 UF
54/46 run/pass ratio, 8.3 yds per pass att, 4.7 yds per rush att, 5.6 allowed per pass att, 2.7 allowed per rush att
.
The Trojans are remembered as sexier on offense, for sure. They had more stars you could name, perhaps. Both had blowout wins in the BCSNCG. USC was more efficent on offense, scoring more.
But I doubt any of us (myself included) that these 2 teams were so similar in terms of per-play numbers. These were the preview years for Bush, Tebow, and Harvin. They'd each go on to explode onto the scene the season after. Maybe its a testament of the great coaching of Meyer that his offense with Leak, Wynn, Baker, and Caldwell moved the ball as well as Leinart, White, Bush, and Jarrett.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #75 on:** January 21, 2020, 10:47:57 AM »

Are they?

I remember 2004 USC much more for defense than flashy offense. Really the NC game vs. OU was the first time I thought "Crap....where did THIS offense come from?" That was kind of the prelude to 2005 USC.

Similarly, the 2006 Florida team was more or less NOT Meyer's spread offense....until the NC game vs. Ohio State. They used some of those looks at times but they weren't overly good at it in 2006. Florida looked much better that year pounding Wynn through A gaps and letting Leak do his standard fare. Tebow had some nice subs here and there. But it wasn't until the OSU game that I had a similar thought, as in "Holy.....where did this come from?" That game looked much more like the 2007 Gator offense than the 2006 offense.

Also, both defensive units were great. In fact, I'd probably peg both as about the second best defense Carroll and Meyer fielded at those schools. I like 2008 USC defense better, and I like the '08-09 Gators defense better. And yeah, I know I'm cheating by using two years for Florida, but it was all the same guys and they played largely the same, so in my mind they become one unit.

DevilFroggy · « **Reply #76 on:** January 21, 2020, 10:59:31 AM »

Yeah that 08 USC defense with all 3 starting LBs drafted in the first round plus Taylor Mays at safety was disgusting.

DevilFroggy · « **Reply #77 on:** January 21, 2020, 11:01:29 AM »

I'm not saying this out of any sympathy of fondness of USC but I kinda wish they didn't have that flukey loss to the Beavs in 08, would've loved to have seen them vs that Gator squad.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #78 on:** January 21, 2020, 11:05:46 AM »

I think that defense set a record for guys drafted, at the time.

It believe it was broken by LSU in the '13 draft, which took all those guys from the '11-'12 defense.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #79 on:** January 21, 2020, 11:15:59 AM »

Back to sort of the original topic...

Easier than talking about best ever is picking one contender to throw out. For me it's easily 2001 Miami. The main argument there is look at all the pro bowlers a decade later. That just doesn't move my needle even a little bit. That team had some scrapes, and against nobodies, which puts them behind the 8 ball compared to others in the discussion.

And not everybody was great THEN. i.e., Danielle Hunter excelling in the NFL doesn't retroactively improve his career at LSU so the "college team made up of NFL HOFs" is irrelevant if their production doesn't match.

I can picture that team losing, especially if they had a decent schedule to play through.

Can't say that for some others. You start getting into "it" factors. Dumb, but it sure does color our perceptions, doesn't it?

Can't really picture VY letting Texas lose a game, can you? I can't either. Can't imagine a team making Frasier's Nebraska break a serious sweat. Can't imagine a runaway record breaker like Burrow with a pick-your-poison offense not getting it done.

In the end, teams like that stand basically forever, because whatever arguments we come up with for or against them, nobody who knows anything can really fathom them losing.

Entropy · « **Reply #80 on:** January 21, 2020, 01:28:35 PM »

sooo... we all agree, UNL 1995 was the best ever. And 05 Texas was all smoke and mirrors.

utee94 · « **Reply #81 on:** January 21, 2020, 01:41:55 PM »

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #82 on:** January 21, 2020, 01:46:56 PM »

Nebraska fans agree, at least.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #83 on:** January 21, 2020, 09:07:34 PM »

Quote from: MikeDeTiger on January 21, 2020, 11:15:59 AM

In the end, teams like that stand basically forever, because whatever arguments we come up with for or against them, nobody who knows anything can really fathom them losing.

Hopes and prayers that this is a joke.
.
I assume this line of thinking went out the window once the first five years of the CFP yielded zero #1 teams winning the NC.

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Topic: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

MikeDeTiger

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

MrNubbz

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

OrangeAfroMan

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

CWSooner

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

OrangeAfroMan

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

MikeDeTiger

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

DevilFroggy

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

DevilFroggy

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

MikeDeTiger

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

MikeDeTiger

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

Entropy

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

utee94

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

MikeDeTiger

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

OrangeAfroMan

Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?