CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on January 14, 2020, 11:40:00 PM
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Keeping the list short, to make it tough.
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No, this doesn't mean the 330-lb players literally lining up across from the 220-lb linemen from yesteryear. If the teams were era-balanced out, based on how good they were, who would LSU's big-passing offense and good-enough defense beat?
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If you think they'd likely beat multiple teams, say so and share why.
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just guessing as anyone, but the two husker teams didn't take prisoners
the Miami team was more talented, possibly not disciplined enough to execute for 60 minutes
I'm guessing Joe might out gun Vince, but we will never know
I picked Texas
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Write in vote for '19 MSU. I think they'd beat us
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It's too bad we didn't get to see OSU play LSU. Not saying they would have won, but after seeing the teams I think OSU matched up a lot better than Clemson did. Oh well.
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Ha! Vince Young would not lose to this Tiger team. Shoot, the 2019 Texas Longhorns only lost by a TD and they're about 1000x worse than that 2005 team. It was certainly a great season for LSU though.
I know OAM asked to discount it, but I can't-- it's obvious that the '71 Huskers would be the team to lose. There's just such a drastic difference in strength/size/speed of the players, as well as drastic increases in the technical sophistication of the game.
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But you have to judge the teams by how they did against teams from their season. Effectiveness of the running/passing games, defensive play, turnovers, etc.
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You can't pick them if the actual players lined up against each other - it's nonsensical. The timeline adjustment would win every time.
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So are we supposed to be imagining what this LSU team would be like with 90s sized players? Or what 95 Nebraska would look like with players from the 2020s?
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But you have to judge the teams by how they did against teams from their season. Effectiveness of the running/passing games, defensive play, turnovers, etc.
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You can't pick them if the actual players lined up against each other - it's nonsensical. The timeline adjustment would win every time.
I mean, I see what you're getting at, I just don't think there's any good way to apply it. Especially with the '71 Huskers, who many (most?) of us never saw play a single game.
Perhaps that's my real challenge with the hypothetical, because I can do it for the '95 Huskers. And I believe that's the best college football team I've ever seen play.
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It's too bad we didn't get to see OSU play LSU. Not saying they would have won, but after seeing the teams I think OSU matched up a lot better than Clemson did. Oh well.
I think the game would have looked almost exactly the same. tOSU was good this year. So was Clemson. LSU was 2 TDs better than both. Just my opinion, obviously.
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Well here's a snippet...
most people view '95 UNL as THE team. So let's look at one aspect of '95 UNL vs '19 LSU:
Nebraska's pass defense was good that year, but not special. Nor did they have an inordinate number of sacks. However, we all saw how they did vs Spurrier's offense in the Fiesta Bowl. They had time to prepare and Florida had a rudimentary pass-blocking scheme.
I think UNL's pass defense/pass rush is inflated in our minds because of that game. Kudos to them for displaying their peak defense vs the passing game in the biggest game of the season, but their baseline or average wasn't special. Does LSU have more 3-step drops than Florida did? Burrow is 100x more agile in the pocket and scrambling than Wuerffel was. Stronger arm, too. Idk if LSU's OL is better, but their scheme certainly is.
I don't see a repeat of UNL's pass game defense vs '19 LSU. They were very good, I'm not talking down on them. But I've spent the past 5 months of my life familiarizing myself with individual teams from the past 50 years and that wasn't a team strength.
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That's the sort of thought experiment that works with comparing teams across eras.
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95UNL run game vs 19LSU...
LSU's defense overall wasn't great this year. And they certainly didn't face anything like the option juggernaut the 95Huskers were. They are beefy in the middle, but lack a stud MLB. I'm not sure walking S Delpit up is going to do much of anything vs the FB dives or other inside runs. That #18 on the Tigers would get caught a lot in-between the QB and the pitch man, sprinkled between getting ear-holed by those road-grading O-linemen. As much fun as it'd be breaking down the LSU offense vs the UNL defense, I"m afraid Nebraska's punter is going to be bored in this hypothetical.
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Are we using 2020 rules?
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95UNL run game vs 19LSU...
LSU's defense overall wasn't great this year. And they certainly didn't face anything like the option juggernaut the 95Huskers were. They are beefy in the middle, but lack a stud MLB. I'm not sure walking S Delpit up is going to do much of anything vs the FB dives or other inside runs. That #18 on the Tigers would get caught a lot in-between the QB and the pitch man, sprinkled between getting ear-holed by those road-grading O-linemen. As much fun as it'd be breaking down the LSU offense vs the UNL defense, I"m afraid Nebraska's punter is going to be bored in this hypothetical.
and LSU hasn't seen anything like that offense in years
do they get film to prepare or just throw them out on the field
Wuerffel isn't Joe Burrow and didn't have that great of a season, but he had a great season and Spurrier's offense was top notch at the time
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That's the sort of thought experiment that works with comparing teams across eras.
you need an active imagination
do you go with the baseline/average ofr teams or the peak performance in the biggest game?
I'm a little surprised two folks voted for the 95 Huskers
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Modern rules, LSU would win. Nebraska would be down to mascots and cheerleaders by halftime after all of their players were ejected for targeting.
With 90s rules, LSU would have a bunch of concussed WRs who would have been "hung out to dry" by their QB. Kill shots and horse collar tackles were a regular part of the game, and they didn't have the QBs wearing skirts back then. Burrow would be rattled by the end of the 1st, and knocked out of the game by halftime.
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Hard to say. I think I’d take 2005 Texas over any team simply because of Vince Young. He was the most unstoppable player that I’ve ever seen play college football. 6’5, 235 could run like a deer and throw the ball anywhere on the field. Cam Newton was bigger but didn’t have VY’s top end speed and moves in the open field.
In the biggest games VY always came up big. He played his best on the big stages. And when he was on and in the zone he was literally impossible to stop.
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you need an active imagination
do you go with the baseline/average ofr teams or the peak performance in the biggest game?
I'm a little surprised two folks voted for the 95 Huskers
I voted for the '71 Huskers, but I voted without understanding the question. If I were to vote again, it would be 2001 Miami that LSU would beat. That team was really good, but it was sort of a down/flukey year in CFB. The fact that they played a team in the NC game that didn't even win its division illustrates that.
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It's too bad we didn't get to see OSU play LSU. Not saying they would have won, but after seeing the teams I think OSU matched up a lot better than Clemson did. Oh well.
I REALLY wish it had been Ohio State Vs LSU as well. In the first half Clemson played like they’d “been there before” looking more polished and poised. In the 2nd half Clemson played like they’d “been there before” playing almost bored, at least compared to the appreciation and enthusiasm LSU brought. In that emotional sense Ohio State also matched up better with LSU.
As for the best team of all time, in any year where there is an undefeated team, the editorUSC was shows make a point to sensationalize this point. Last year columnists did it with Clemson. It’s getting caught up in the moment.
Rather than racing to argue the best for the sake of a too subjective case, make it more nuanced.
Whose the most “talented” ever? 2001 Miami? I’ll argue 2002 Miami was even more talented, which bring me to...
Whose the best “sum-greater-than-parts” championship team? 2002 Ohio State?
The showiest champion ever? 2004 USC? Which I’ll argue 2005 USC was even showier.
I’d rather argue more nuanced “bests” then delve into the TV idiots idiots promoting LSU as the greatest team ever even though they admit they don’t watch college football. Looking at you Stephen A.
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this from Wiki........... 1995 Huskers
Due to their performance against Florida, victories over four teams that finished in the top 10 (by an average score of 49–18), consistent dominance (smallest margin of victory was 14 points, trailed only once all season, rushed for 51 touchdowns and 400 yards per game while allowing only 6 rushing touchdowns all season and 78 rushing yards per game), their record-setting offensive performance, and their statistically impressive defense throughout the season, the 1995 Nebraska Cornhuskers are widely regarded as the greatest team in college football history. The team set Division 1-A records by averaging 7.0 yards per rushing attempt, allowing zero quarterback sacks, and allowing five punt returns (for 12 yards) over the entire season. The Cornhuskers average margin of victory was over 38 points, the largest of any Division 1-A team since World War II, despite regularly resting starters after halftime.
Total Offense #2 (556 per game), Rushing offense #1 (399.8 per game), Scoring offense #1 (55 per game), Passing Efficiency #17, Rushing defense #2 (78 per game), Pass Efficiency Defense #21, Total Defense #13, Scoring Defense #4 (13.6 per game), Passes intercepted #7 20 total,
how would the other teams on the list, including 2019 LSU stack up???
I think I know.
LSU's weakness was defense. Total defense #31 (343 yards per game) Scoring defense #32 (21.9 per game)
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The way the call PI and holding has change from the 90's.... and targeting did not exist at all. I think today's game is called more like a 7v7 scrimmage. Which rules is very important to the answer. In the 90's, UNL would win. I think they'd actually do better than people think with how you were allowed to hit at the safety position and how you could level a QB without being flagged. Today, I'd say LSU in a shootout. UNL would be hard pressed to stop that offense. Just comparing those two...
I voted for UNL thinking of the game being played in the 90's. Probably a mistake. Thinking of who would win in any decade, really the team that would be the most competitive regardless of rules would be Miami. They would be the most flexible team in terms of rules changes of the group. jmo
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it's one team LSU would beat, not what one team would beat 2019 LSU
I voted Texas
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Glad to see the posts. Sad to see the lack of carefully reading the title of the thread...
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Kind of a ridiculous thread.
"Pay no attention to what would really happen, try to imagine what it would be like if the players were quite a bit different than they actually were."
If the NCAA game were still a thing, then you could maybe simulate it on your XBox. Of course then, they wouldn't have known exactly how good LSU would end up being, when the game came out. So it would have been preseason projection LSU instead of NC LSU.
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Of course it's ridiculous, and meaningless. It's for fun. And the video game parallel is perfect - pretend it's a video game. So the DT on '71 Nebraska has a rating of, say, 91. It doesn't matter if he's 70 lbs lighter than '19 LSU's DT. How good they each were matters.
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I don't see the challenge here.
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01 Miami would probably be the toughest nut for LSU to crack. There were no holes. It was stupid.
Okay, they have one great WR, let's turn that into a weakness by bracket covering him. Oh, their All-American, 1st rd TE will destroy you underneath. Umm, okay, let's get a good pass rush. Their left tackle got Heisman votes. Fine, let's key on the run! Well, if we can slow 1200 yd rusher Portis, his backup is Willis McGehee. And the 3rd string guy is Frank Gore.
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And the defense.....7 of the starting 11 were 1st rd draft picks. Vince Wolfork was a backup. Sean freakin' Taylor was a backup.
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The only way you'd beat them is if they were bored. Their only single-digit game in 2001 was Dec 1 @ Va Tech. They were bored. Why do I say that? They hadn't allowed more than 7 points vs an opponent since Oct 13. Their previous 2 games were vs ranked opponents and the final scores had been 59-0 and 65-7.
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For all the marbles, they went up 34-0 at halftime vs Nebraska. I don't like any incarnation of the Canes, but 2001 was too much.
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Inner-thread quick trivia: 2019 LSU is the first SEC team to lead the country in scoring since who/when?
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Florida 1995?
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Florida 1995?
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Ima guess 1993 Auburn because I'd find that interesting. It's almost assuredly wrong and I should guess another UF team like 1996. I don't think Payton ever did it at UT.
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gotta be UF '96. Nebraska led in '95 with 52.4 a game.
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01 Miami would probably be the toughest nut for LSU to crack. There were no holes. It was stupid.
Okay, they have one great WR, let's turn that into a weakness by bracket covering him. Oh, their All-American, 1st rd TE will destroy you underneath. Umm, okay, let's get a good pass rush. Their left tackle got Heisman votes. Fine, let's key on the run! Well, if we can slow 1200 yd rusher Portis, his backup is Willis McGehee. And the 3rd string guy is Frank Gore.
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And the defense.....7 of the starting 11 were 1st rd draft picks. Vince Wolfork was a backup. Sean freakin' Taylor was a backup.
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The only way you'd beat them is if they were bored. Their only single-digit game in 2001 was Dec 1 @ Va Tech. They were bored. Why do I say that? They hadn't allowed more than 7 points vs an opponent since Oct 13. Their previous 2 games were vs ranked opponents and the final scores had been 59-0 and 65-7.
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For all the marbles, they went up 34-0 at halftime vs Nebraska. I don't like any incarnation of the Canes, but 2001 was too much.
The tough part is we have the benefit of hindsight with the other teams. You mentioned McGahee and Gore but we didn’t know anything about them in 2001. They were just second string RBs. Who was the TE in 01? Shockey? Would he be viewed that much better than Thaddeus Moss if both played in college this year and we didn’t have his pro career to lean on? It’s just hard to think of them 20 years later without taking into consideration how good they also were in the NFL. Twenty years from now we may be viewing this LSU squad as the most talented we have ever seen but they aren’t going to get the benefit of the doubt right now.
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Except that we witnessed 2001. Shockey led the team in receptions. Ed Reed was a consensus AA. McKinnie won the Outland. Dorsey won the Maxwell. Gore averaged 9 ypc.
They were big, bad, and scary in the moment. We learned how deep they were in subsequent years, but yeah, they were a big favorite for a reason in the RB.
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2001 Miami was definitely one of the most talented teams of all time but they aren't without their warts. Their very close win vs VTech (admittedly they were good in 2001) and unimpressive win vs BC come to mind.
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Except that we witnessed 2001. Shockey led the team in receptions. Ed Reed was a consensus AA. McKinnie won the Outland. Dorsey won the Maxwell. Gore averaged 9 ypc.
They were big, bad, and scary in the moment. We learned how deep they were in subsequent years, but yeah, they were a big favorite for a reason in the RB.
I understand but I don’t remember immediately following the ‘01 season people talking about the possibility of that team being one of the all time greats. Maybe I’m wrong about that but it seemed that talk started many years later following the ‘00-02 run and we saw just how many players from those years ended up in the NFL, and did quite well.
This LSU team is being talked about in those terms because they just had a remarkable season against an unbelievable schedule. Burrow may have just had the best season of any college football player in the history of the game. I think the disadvantage comes in that we still only have their college careers to go by. Grant Delpit had every accolade in college that Ed Reed had but almost everyone would say Reed is the better safety because we know what he went on to do. We have the benefit of hindsight with that Miami team.
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I’d rather argue more nuanced “bests” then delve into the TV idiots idiots promoting LSU as the greatest team ever even though they admit they don’t watch college football. Looking at you Stephen A.
He knows less about the NFL.there is strong evidence ESPN hires the handicapped.No disrespect to the handicapped
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Hard to say. I think I’d take 2005 Texas over any team simply because of Vince Young. He was the most unstoppable player that I’ve ever seen play college football. 6’5, 235 could run like a deer and throw the ball anywhere on the field. Cam Newton was bigger but didn’t have VY’s top end speed and moves in the open field.
In the biggest games VY always came up big. He played his best on the big stages. And when he was on and in the zone he was literally impossible to stop.
Crazy Vote,gun to my head I'd take the Shorthorns.They beat a USC Team that had at least as many weapons as LSU.And a defense that tagged along also
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Crazy Vote,gun to my head I'd take the Shorthorns.They beat a USC Team that had at least as many weapons as LSU.And a defense that tagged along also
i would argue Clemson's OLine is/was stronger and the key to the horns was Vince... reduce V's scramble and true dual threat, and... they're beat. USC couldn't do that- I think LSU could do that at least better than USC did, and result in an LSU win by at least the same margin the Longhorns beat USC.
apples to apples, the 'best' opponent for this season's LSU is this season's tOSU. Again, I'm not pandering to company when i offer that.
we see the score of the game and in the years to come we'll only see the score- but the score doesn't explain how that game could have went either way... especially when you're talking about an offense (LSU and tOSU ~AND~ Clemson) that can truly score on any play from anywhere on the field. these scores usually result in a mismatch found somewhere and exploited (duh), and it's usually the first team to find it wins... LSU found it... and punched it over and over and over resulting in Clemson being forced into a place they aren't familiar with (playing from behind) and losing tempo, and isolating their likely play calls to a smaller variety playing catch up... it could JUST AS EASILY in my opinion been LSU behind the eight ball in that game, but they 'broke free' first... and that is the difference in that game. it was all on the coaches.
saying it plainly, Clemson caught significant breaks in the game against tOSU- and it was and wasn't officiating. Had they scored even once in the red zone on two drives they settled for 3, they would have most likely shoved Clemson in the same corner LSU did, and.... they'd have (as recorded by history) 'easily' won that game by two or three scores. all the while, it wasn't that Clemson was better- it was that tOSU shot themselves in the foot in the most crucial time NOT to shoot themselves in the foot, and allowed Clemson opportunity to hang on.... add to that two really botched calls, and.... we would have seen a far different NCG by my reckoning.
in the title game there was a significant happening that i haven't seen anyone discuss- two were early, and it was Clemson allowing the LSU drive to continue because of penalty. It seemed to me that LSU was about to push the O.S. button before that- but keeping the score close kept them off it. Then, the killer- Burrow was yanked by his mask and resulted in a F&10.... the significance? the guy that grabbed his mask was being held. had the holding been called? THAT was the breaking point in that game by my reckoning... it sent Clemson into desperation mode and played directly into LSU's strengths after the resulting score.
targeting was HUGE in both games. that key element reduced a solid defense to one with holes on both the Clemson team in the title game, as well as the OSU team against Clemson.
we look at statistics and base opinions solely on them- as that's how we record the games and justify their outcomes... and then compare teams from despair ages. that's not smart. LSU's offense was prolific, and they did it against defenses who were good and those defenses were diminished statistically by playing teams who also had good offenses... meaning- Bama's D was 'off center' from what we usually consider a good bama d... but.... had they played in the ACC their defense, statistically, would have been lights out as the ACC doesn't have O's to truly threaten opponents defensive (statistically supported) ratings. Statistics are skewed across the board- which would make Clemson (ACC) look better than they are... but... just to confound- Clemson was every bit as good as advertised on both sides of the ball.
i guess all that^ to say- eye tests from reasonable and informed fans of this sport tell me more than statistics which have to be scrutinized against competitors and their competitors, and... the three best teams were given a chance... one literally lucked out, score be damned. they're all three 'that' good. ...... and this is the case more often than it isn't over the years and over individual seasons.
just my opinion and 35 cents (sorry- i started typing with 3 cents in mind and got carried away).
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Glad to see the posts. Sad to see the lack of carefully reading the title of the thread...
guilty...
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The tough part is we have the benefit of hindsight with the other teams. You mentioned McGahee and Gore but we didn’t know anything about them in 2001. They were just second string RBs. Who was the TE in 01? Shockey? Would he be viewed that much better than Thaddeus Moss if both played in college this year and we didn’t have his pro career to lean on? It’s just hard to think of them 20 years later without taking into consideration how good they also were in the NFL. Twenty years from now we may be viewing this LSU squad as the most talented we have ever seen but they aren’t going to get the benefit of the doubt right now.
I'm sort of the king of separating NFL and college accomplishments. Preaching to the choir.
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I understand but I don’t remember immediately following the ‘01 season people talking about the possibility of that team being one of the all time greats. Maybe I’m wrong about that but it seemed that talk started many years later following the ‘00-02 run and we saw just how many players from those years ended up in the NFL, and did quite well.
Depends how impressed you were with the 2000 team. They were thousandths of a point away from facing off against OU for the NC that year. After a 2nd-game loss, they beat #1 and spanked #2, while destroying everyone else on their schedule.
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If you look at it like 02 was a continuation of 01, then yeah, you have a point. But if you saw 01 as a continuation of '00, then in the moment, the '01 Canes, say at halftime vs Nebraska, looking BACK....yeah, they were sick.
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My thing about Texas getting the most votes is yeah, Vince Young. But when any team in any sport is so reliant on one player, that's not a good thing when it comes to an exercise like this.
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What if he's off?
What if he tweaks an ankle?
What if he misses the flight?
You're screwed.
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Even if the great player is known for coming up big in big games....it'll hold true, until it doesn't. Bob Stoops was "Big Game Bob"...until he wasn't. Now he'll be remembered for sucking in bowl games.
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Just as a genetic bottleneck is bad for a species, so too, can a dominant player be for a great team (when compared to other great teams).
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He knows less about the NFL.there is strong evidence ESPN hires the handicapped.No disrespect to the handicapped
the difference with 01 Miami was that you didn't need to wait 10 years to weight the NFL careers
that Cane team set the record for the following NFL draft.
Not that drafts can't be discounted, but the number of players in the 1st and 2nd rounds was staggering at the time
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Glad to see the posts. Sad to see the lack of carefully reading the title of the thread...
Communication is a two-way street.
In 20/20 (or, as Cam Newton would have it, 50/50), perhaps the combination of subject line and question could have been worded more clearly.
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Communication is a two-way street.
In 20/20 (or, as Cam Newton would have it, 50/50), perhaps the combination of subject line and question could have been worded more clearly.
I re-read them both...and both ask the same question. I guess some people can't be bothered to care if they're understanding what they're reading.
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That's what every lousy comedian thinks when the audience doesn't get his jokes.
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If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick to beat them?
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That's what every lousy comedian thinks when the audience doesn't get his jokes.
So while the same question is posed two different ways, you're saying they're both unclear. And that's the most likely scenario?
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If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick to beat them?
'19 LSU as I see them is basically '94 Penn State + 25 years of evolution.
LSU's average score was 48-22, PSU's was 47-21.
Penn State ran more.
Both were great offenses with 'good enough' defenses.
LSU's pass D was a little better.
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But basically, if you were to group all-time great teams into families, they'd be in the same family. So for historical-sake, any team you'd pick to beat '94 PSU would have a decent chance at '19 LSU.
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The team would need great pass D. Solid run D. An offense capable of keeping up. Ideally an offense that held onto the ball (TOP).
So your great Nebraska teams would have a good shot. '97 Michigan has the pass D, but not an offense that could keep up. You have your '01 Miamis and '04/'05 USCs that could maybe out-talent LSU.
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I'm not sure a mad pass-rush would even matter, as good as Burrow was at escaping.
One of the earlier Saban NC Bama teams would probably work - ball-control, elite pass D.
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Idk, it's just fun to think about.
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Bill James spent some time classifying all-time great baseball players into 'famiilies' based not just on their quality, but on their type - doubles vs triples/steals vs HRs, etc.
It would be a fun exercise to do the same with college football teams. Base it on run/pass ratio, yards per play, yards per play allowed, and types of offenses/defenses -
Air Raid Family - some teams from Hawai'i, BYU, Texas Tech, etc....then further break those down into sub-groups
Option Families - one branch of traditional option (Nebraska, service academies, many 70s helmet programs) and another branch of spread read-option (WV w/ White, Florida w/ Tebow, Auburn w/ Newton, Nevada w/ Kap, etc)
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One thing would be that individual programs would vary among the families - '71 Nebraska wouldn't be in the same family as '95 Nebraska. Even under the same HC, there would be variations - '14 OSU and '18 OSU were verrrry different under Meyer. '97 Tennessee and '98 Tennessee were worlds apart under Fulmer.
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I don't think the LSU defense was "elite", very good no doubt, but not elite. I'd go with Nebbie all day.
Burrow had the best year I've ever seen from a QB.
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So your great Nebraska teams would have a good shot. '97 Michigan has the pass D, but not an offense that could keep up. You have your '01 Miamis and '04/'05 USCs that could maybe out-talent LSU.
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I'm not sure a mad pass-rush would even matter, as good as Burrow was at escaping.
well, the 95 Huskers pass D was great because of the pass-rush as illustrated vs Florida in the Fiesta
not sure even Burrow could escape that enough times to move the ball regularly
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I dunno he picked up a 1st on 3rd and 19 right before the half.Then threw for 6 with 14 seconds left
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well, the 95 Huskers pass D was great because of the pass-rush as illustrated vs Florida in the Fiesta
not sure even Burrow could escape that enough times to move the ball regularly
They actually didn't have a ton of sacks that year, they just exploited Florida's simple pass protection scheme. Credit McBride and fault Spurrier for not caring enough to worry about it.
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I certainly fault Spurrier for not making in game adjustment.
Seemed that everytime Wuerffel had an empty backfield, the Blackshirts blitzed
Easy adjustment to keep a back or TE in to block
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There can be no "right answer" of course, some might think last year's Clemson team would beat LSU this year, and well they might. It's not as if this Clemson team was demolished. I'd look for a team that thrashed everyone they played by large margins.
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Doesn't really matter because there is no comparing across eras, even the way OAM is suggesting to do it. Forget '71 Nebraska, even the '95 version is significantly behind modern teams in terms of athletic training and nutritional advancements.
Would '95 Nebraska have any clue how to stop an RPO play? Nope. Would 2019 LSU score a bazillion points if rules hadn't changed so much to favor offenses? Nope. Would Nebraska's defense still be fundamentally sound and would LSU still score a lot of points? Probably so.
I mentioned this on the SEC board.....my wife is a Longhorn fan and due to life stuff she missed out on the 2005 season and some others, so a few months back we watched the Rose Bowl classic vs. USC because I thought she should see it. It was immediately striking how much the game had changed even since then. If that game were played by today's rules both Texas and USC would've had multiple defenders ejected in the first few minutes for targeting. From that same era, guys like Florida's Reggie Nelson and LSU's Laron Landry would've never been greats for their schools because they'd have spent their entire careers in the penalty box.
It's just not as simple as adjusting for eras, because that's a fool's errand.
Fearless says LSU hasn't seen a triple option in years. Other than the one they saw this year, yes, it's been a couple seasons since the last triple option they saw. None of them have fared well. None of them had Nebraska's talent either.
utee94 says Vince Young would not lose to this LSU team. Okay, I counter Joe Burrow would not lose to that Texas team.
You start to see how silly this is. There's not much to back up any claims. Hell, there's more substance to this year's Ohio State vs. LSU debate, and even that is rampant speculation.
I will say you guys keep talking about LSU's defense this year as a bad thing. OAM would have to specify what he means when he says "2019 LSU." If you look at season-long stats, you've got one thing. LSU took some lumps while they scratched their scheme in-season and more importantly, had a slew of guys injured starting in game 2 who didn't come back until later in the year. But the numbers are what they are from a season-long perspective, if that's what you're comparing. If you mean the LSU team that made it into the playoffs, then it's a mistake to use season-long numbers. There is no comparing the defense that was missing multiple starters until week 11 or so to the defense that was on the field in the last 4-5 games. Different personnel with different capabilities with very different outcomes. OAM keeps saying the defense was weak. Well, yes, the one that played Florida was (and really they weren't weak, they were "not great"). Despite CWS' claims here that LSU likes to fake cramps, the reality is 6 guys left the Texas game in week 2, 4 of whom did not return to the game, and more would be lost for several weeks in subsequent games against NWSt. and Vanderbilt. Sure, LSU looks different without half of its starters. Which begs the question, which LSU defense do you mean when you criticize the 2019 LSU defense? The season-long numbers? Sure. Not LSU's best. The unit that was in the playoffs and held OU to 14 meaningful points and Clemson to 25...OU quadrupling that and Clemson doubling it on average? You're kidding yourself if you don't think that was a very good defense.
I just don't think there's a meaningful conversation to be had about Greatest Team Of All Time.
Greatest season of all time? Have at it. Each of the usual suspects have a case. And it's simultaneously hard to argue against the skins on LSU's wall this year.
That said, I'm totally picking 2005 Texas just to annoy utee. Somebody not named Joe Burrow is gonna have to reclaim the DKR single game passing record before I budge an inch on that :)
Y'all don't show this to my wife.
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You start to see how silly this is. There's not much to back up any claims. Hell, there's more substance to this year's Ohio State vs. LSU debate, and even that is rampant speculation.
yup, if LSU and Clemson played again tonight the game would be much different than a couple weeks ago. And the best team doesn't always win.
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Doesn't really matter because there is no comparing across eras, even the way OAM is suggesting to do it. Forget '71 Nebraska, even the '95 version is significantly behind modern teams in terms of athletic training and nutritional advancements.
Would '95 Nebraska have any clue how to stop an RPO play? Nope. Would 2019 LSU score a bazillion points if rules hadn't changed so much to favor offenses? Nope. Would Nebraska's defense still be fundamentally sound and would LSU still score a lot of points? Probably so.
I mentioned this on the SEC board.....my wife is a Longhorn fan and due to life stuff she missed out on the 2005 season and some others, so a few months back we watched the Rose Bowl classic vs. USC because I thought she should see it. It was immediately striking how much the game had changed even since then. If that game were played by today's rules both Texas and USC would've had multiple defenders ejected in the first few minutes for targeting. From that same era, guys like Florida's Reggie Nelson and LSU's Laron Landry would've never been greats for their schools because they'd have spent their entire careers in the penalty box.
It's just not as simple as adjusting for eras, because that's a fool's errand.
Fearless says LSU hasn't seen a triple option in years. Other than the one they saw this year, yes, it's been a couple seasons since the last triple option they saw. None of them have fared well. None of them had Nebraska's talent either.
utee94 says Vince Young would not lose to this LSU team. Okay, I counter Joe Burrow would not lose to that Texas team.
You start to see how silly this is. There's not much to back up any claims. Hell, there's more substance to this year's Ohio State vs. LSU debate, and even that is rampant speculation.
I will say you guys keep talking about LSU's defense this year as a bad thing. OAM would have to specify what he means when he says "2019 LSU." If you look at season-long stats, you've got one thing. LSU took some lumps while they scratched their scheme in-season and more importantly, had a slew of guys injured starting in game 2 who didn't come back until later in the year. But the numbers are what they are from a season-long perspective, if that's what you're comparing. If you mean the LSU team that made it into the playoffs, then it's a mistake to use season-long numbers. There is no comparing the defense that was missing multiple starters until week 11 or so to the defense that was on the field in the last 4-5 games. Different personnel with different capabilities with very different outcomes. OAM keeps saying the defense was weak. Well, yes, the one that played Florida was (and really they weren't weak, they were "not great"). Despite CWS' claims here that LSU likes to fake cramps, the reality is 6 guys left the Texas game in week 2, 4 of whom did not return to the game, and more would be lost for several weeks in subsequent games against NWSt. and Vanderbilt. Sure, LSU looks different without half of its starters. Which begs the question, which LSU defense do you mean when you criticize the 2019 LSU defense? The season-long numbers? Sure. Not LSU's best. The unit that was in the playoffs and held OU to 14 meaningful points and Clemson to 25...OU quadrupling that and Clemson doubling it on average? You're kidding yourself if you don't think that was a very good defense.
I just don't think there's a meaningful conversation to be had about Greatest Team Of All Time.
Greatest season of all time? Have at it. Each of the usual suspects have a case. And it's simultaneously hard to argue against the skins on LSU's wall this year.
That said, I'm totally picking 2005 Texas just to annoy utee. Somebody not named Joe Burrow is gonna have to reclaim the DKR single game passing record before I budge an inch on that :)
Y'all don't show this to my wife.
Bite me
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1983 Texas was also really really really good and should be in this conversation.
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1983 Texas was also really really really good and should be in this conversation.
Now you a-holes are just trolling me.
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Doesn't really matter because there is no comparing across eras, even the way OAM is suggesting to do it. Forget '71 Nebraska, even the '95 version is significantly behind modern teams in terms of athletic training and nutritional advancements.
Would '95 Nebraska have any clue how to stop an RPO play? Nope. Would 2019 LSU score a bazillion points if rules hadn't changed so much to favor offenses? Nope. Would Nebraska's defense still be fundamentally sound and would LSU still score a lot of points? Probably so.
I mentioned this on the SEC board.....my wife is a Longhorn fan and due to life stuff she missed out on the 2005 season and some others, so a few months back we watched the Rose Bowl classic vs. USC because I thought she should see it. It was immediately striking how much the game had changed even since then. If that game were played by today's rules both Texas and USC would've had multiple defenders ejected in the first few minutes for targeting. From that same era, guys like Florida's Reggie Nelson and LSU's Laron Landry would've never been greats for their schools because they'd have spent their entire careers in the penalty box.
It's just not as simple as adjusting for eras, because that's a fool's errand.
Fearless says LSU hasn't seen a triple option in years. Other than the one they saw this year, yes, it's been a couple seasons since the last triple option they saw. None of them have fared well. None of them had Nebraska's talent either.
utee94 says Vince Young would not lose to this LSU team. Okay, I counter Joe Burrow would not lose to that Texas team.
You start to see how silly this is. There's not much to back up any claims. Hell, there's more substance to this year's Ohio State vs. LSU debate, and even that is rampant speculation.
I will say you guys keep talking about LSU's defense this year as a bad thing. OAM would have to specify what he means when he says "2019 LSU." If you look at season-long stats, you've got one thing. LSU took some lumps while they scratched their scheme in-season and more importantly, had a slew of guys injured starting in game 2 who didn't come back until later in the year. But the numbers are what they are from a season-long perspective, if that's what you're comparing. If you mean the LSU team that made it into the playoffs, then it's a mistake to use season-long numbers. There is no comparing the defense that was missing multiple starters until week 11 or so to the defense that was on the field in the last 4-5 games. Different personnel with different capabilities with very different outcomes. OAM keeps saying the defense was weak. Well, yes, the one that played Florida was (and really they weren't weak, they were "not great"). Despite CWS' claims here that LSU likes to fake cramps, the reality is 6 guys left the Texas game in week 2, 4 of whom did not return to the game, and more would be lost for several weeks in subsequent games against NWSt. and Vanderbilt. Sure, LSU looks different without half of its starters. Which begs the question, which LSU defense do you mean when you criticize the 2019 LSU defense? The season-long numbers? Sure. Not LSU's best. The unit that was in the playoffs and held OU to 14 meaningful points and Clemson to 25...OU quadrupling that and Clemson doubling it on average? You're kidding yourself if you don't think that was a very good defense.
I just don't think there's a meaningful conversation to be had about Greatest Team Of All Time.
Greatest season of all time? Have at it. Each of the usual suspects have a case. And it's simultaneously hard to argue against the skins on LSU's wall this year.
That said, I'm totally picking 2005 Texas just to annoy utee. Somebody not named Joe Burrow is gonna have to reclaim the DKR single game passing record before I budge an inch on that :)
Y'all don't show this to my wife.
Hah!
I didn't claim that the LSU players faked cramps, as you well know. Your brother Horns-by-marriage made that claim. I just noted that it was funny that Ed Orgeron was claiming that a Clemson player was faking cramps after all the controversy over the subject in the LSU @ Texas game. What I assert is that cramps are more likely in hot-and-humid conditions (because the body's cooling system doesn't work as well) than when it is hot and dry.
Helicopters struggle with hot-and-humid conditions too, so there's that.
Ole!
BTW, I agree with you that it is virtually impossible to compare teams over different eras. From one year to the next, yes. Decades apart, no.
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Hah!
I didn't claim that the LSU players faked cramps, as you well know. Your brother Horns-by-marriage made that claim. I just noted that it was funny that Ed Orgeron was claiming that a Clemson player was faking cramps after all the controversy over the subject in the LSU @ Texas game. What I assert is that cramps are more likely in hot-and-humid conditions (because the body's cooling system doesn't work as well) than when it is hot and dry.
Helicopters struggle with hot-and-humid conditions too, so there's that.
Ole!
BTW, I agree with you that it is virtually impossible to compare teams over different eras. From one year to the next, yes. Decades apart, no.
It sure got ME at DKR this year :73:
My only regret for this year was, in my health I haven't been to games in years. I mustered everything I could to take my wife to a Texas game on our anniversary, the opener against La. Tech. She'd never been to a game in person and I really wanted that for her. I had problems beyond problems, not just with my usual pains and sufferings, but all the usual stuff has caused me to be so sedentary that I handled the heat really poorly and she wound up having to treat me for heat exhaustion as I retreated to the shadows of the concession areas away from the sun. Fortunately she's a NP so I was in good hands.
Buddy of mine had offered me tix to a couple of LSU games this year, but I decided right there in Austin I was done with games and I imagine that will be my last unless and until something drastic changes.
Best season in school history, arguably the greatest season and QB of all history, and I missed it. Dammit.
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I also haven't once said LSU's defense was weak. It's amazing how someone can read something and change the entire idea when they share it out.
I specifically have said "not great". How you transform that to "weak" is some interesting (un)mental gymnastics.
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National champions tend to have great defenses, statistically. So when you compare solely NCs, a good/not great defense (compared to peers) looks worse.
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Before LSU, '10 Auburn's defense was among the worst for a NC. '90 Colorado's wasn't great, but they had great sack numbers. '84 BYU obviously didn't have an elite defense, nor did '82 Penn St.
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LSU's defense was very average when compared to other national champs. I've never said or suggested weak. It was between good and great in a vacuum (not great), and worse when compared to the great teams of the past (obviously).
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Please stop misconstruing my words (if you're able).
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I'm sorry to hear that you are in bad health, Mike. I had not gotten the word on that.
Is this something that you will just have to live with for the rest of your life, or is there reasonable hope for improvement?
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Best season in school history, arguably the greatest season and QB of all history, and I missed it. Dammit.
That stinks. I'm sorry, man.
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I also haven't once said LSU's defense was weak. It's amazing how someone can read something and change the entire idea when they share it out.
I specifically have said "not great". How you transform that to "weak" is some interesting (un)mental gymnastics.
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National champions tend to have great defenses, statistically. So when you compare solely NCs, a good/not great defense (compared to peers) looks worse.
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Before LSU, '10 Auburn's defense was among the worst for a NC. '90 Colorado's wasn't great, but they had great sack numbers. '84 BYU obviously didn't have an elite defense, nor did '82 Penn St.
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LSU's defense was very average when compared to other national champs. I've never said or suggested weak. It was between good and great in a vacuum (not great), and worse when compared to the great teams of the past (obviously).
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Please stop misconstruing my words (if you're able).
edited to add: this seems to come off more combative than I meant it. No harsh tone is intended here.
"Both were great offenses with 'good enough' defenses."
...and numerous other comments made here and elsewhere don't sound the same as "not great." As in, they're not great. Normal conversation with that phrase generally means they're mediocre, but if that's not what you meant, my bad.
But you still didn't answer the question. They're not great in part because you looked at season long numbers, which is faulty on a number of levels. Look at how they finished the final games in any advanced stat, significantly higher than season long averages. I asked are you wanting people to compare the season-long teams (defenses included) or the units that made it into the playoffs to stake their claim? Because those are two very different things, based in large part in this case on injury and health.
And if you want to talk about season long defenses, that becomes even more iffy to use seasonal stats, because how many MOVs are based on defenses subbing out guys at the end of blowouts? How many lose focus in junk time? How many quality offenses are each playing in the first place? Does end-game defensive plans and junk time defensive plans seek to trade time for yards, or do they stick with their base? That stuff all factors in season long defense and it's a valid question to ask how useful it is for comparison. I heard this over and over from Clemson fans leading up to the game....they kept trotting out LSU's ranking in SP+ and FEI for the year, and tried to tell them it didn't mean much, this was a much, much better unit than the adv. stats showed. Which is the correct one to use here? I'm genuinely asking. October 2019 LSU would have a lot more problems with '95 Nebraska than December LSU. I don't know how to answer the question.
I'd stick with eyeball test in this case because we have nothing else useful. And the question remains, are you eyeballing the whole year's worth of defense for these teams, or just the games where they blew away their NC competitors? I really don't know how to answer that. LSU's defense in particular had problems throughout the year. Over the last 4-5 games, they were one of the better LSU defenses we've seen this century, and their results vs. top offensive teams backed it up.
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I'm sorry to hear that you are in bad health, Mike. I had not gotten the word on that.
Is this something that you will just have to live with for the rest of your life, or is there reasonable hope for improvement?
Been going on 10+ years now, it's looking doubtful. The problem compounds because one major thing that stops so many daily activities leads to a much less active lifestyle, which then creates it's own problems with conditioning, body chemistry, and a host of other things, as I have learned.
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On a very limited basis, I have been able to make some simple trips for a few days, even if I can't do much on them. We honeymooned last year in the hill country and made it back to Austin this year for our anniversary. Wife really likes the area and we'll probably keep that up.
Next time I'll try to meet up with utee to catch up. If he thinks I'm trolling him now, just wait til he sees me in person.
Of course by then Texas will have beaten LSU in Tiger Stadium, so the job is going to be exponentially harder.
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edited to add: this seems to come off more combative than I meant it. No harsh tone is intended here.
"Both were great offenses with 'good enough' defenses."
...and numerous other comments made here and elsewhere don't sound the same as "not great." As in, they're not great. Normal conversation with that phrase generally means they're mediocre, but if that's not what you meant, my bad.
But you still didn't answer the question. They're not great in part because you looked at season long numbers, which is faulty on a number of levels. Look at how they finished the final games in any advanced stat, significantly higher than season long averages. I asked are you wanting people to compare the season-long teams (defenses included) or the units that made it into the playoffs to stake their claim? Because those are two very different things, based in large part in this case on injury and health.
And if you want to talk about season long defenses, that becomes even more iffy to use seasonal stats, because how many MOVs are based on defenses subbing out guys at the end of blowouts? How many lose focus in junk time? How many quality offenses are each playing in the first place? Does end-game defensive plans and junk time defensive plans seek to trade time for yards, or do they stick with their base? That stuff all factors in season long defense and it's a valid question to ask how useful it is for comparison. I heard this over and over from Clemson fans leading up to the game....they kept trotting out LSU's ranking in SP+ and FEI for the year, and tried to tell them it didn't mean much, this was a much, much better unit than the adv. stats showed. Which is the correct one to use here? I'm genuinely asking. October 2019 LSU would have a lot more problems with '95 Nebraska than December LSU. I don't know how to answer the question.
I'd stick with eyeball test in this case because we have nothing else useful. And the question remains, are you eyeballing the whole year's worth of defense for these teams, or just the games where they blew away their NC competitors? I really don't know how to answer that. LSU's defense in particular had problems throughout the year. Over the last 4-5 games, they were one of the better LSU defenses we've seen this century, and their results vs. top offensive teams backed it up.
I go by season-long yards per attempt allowed numbers.
And while I believe LSU's defense was better the last third of the year, their whole season, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, is taken into account. You're special pleading when you cite injuries, blowout substitutions, etc - because everyone does those things.
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It doesn't matter if LSU fielded 11 guys the first half of the year and an entirely different group of 11 the second half, I have to take their whole season into consideration. I have to.
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If you'd like to whip out some sort of points-allowed-by-starters-per-minute-per-a-sub-25-point-lead stat, feel free. Otherwise, it's special pleading. A fallacy.
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Sorry to hear the bad news of you health Mike, God Bless
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Okay, at least I understand how you're wanting to compare, and it's fair for talking points.
But do you understand the trickiness of the comparison? You want to pit these two teams against each other in a hypothetical matchup. That's fun in hypothetical-land, where we just use the season numbers. In an actual game, you're talking about a singular moment in time when they play, and it absolutely makes a difference when you're talking about. This hypothetical matchup wouldn't take place over a season, it would take place over 4 hours. It would matter what 4 hours those are. That's all I was saying, and another reason it's hard beyond the point of reason to try and make comparisons. For the sake of argument, sure I can see why you're compelled to use seasonal stats, but that's just part of why the argument is pointless. Comparing seasons is different than a hypothetical game.
So I'll comfortably say 2019 LSU would struggle much more with 1995 Nebraska than November/December LSU would. Just how it is. No idea who wins either way, that's too much to think about one way or the other. Can only say Playoff LSU would have a better chance win or lose than mid-season LSU.
What I like about that '95 Huskers team is the near complete lack of mystery on offense. There was no confusion in teams' mind as to what was coming play by play, they were just completely powerless to stop it. That's impressive in a different way than an offense that does a lot of things and keeps you off balance. And those weren't just scrub teams they did it too, some of those teams were really good. It's easy to think a scheme that's been as figured out as the triple option wouldn't fare well now, but there were some pretty good ideas on defending it back then.....Nebraska was just flat better and didn't care.
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Get well MDT - best wishes/prayers
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Okay, at least I understand how you're wanting to compare, and it's fair for talking points.
But do you understand the trickiness of the comparison? You want to pit these two teams against each other in a hypothetical matchup. That's fun in hypothetical-land, where we just use the season numbers. In an actual game, you're talking about a singular moment in time when they play, and it absolutely makes a difference when you're talking about. This hypothetical matchup wouldn't take place over a season, it would take place over 4 hours. It would matter what 4 hours those are. That's all I was saying, and another reason it's hard beyond the point of reason to try and make comparisons. For the sake of argument, sure I can see why you're compelled to use seasonal stats, but that's just part of why the argument is pointless. Comparing seasons is different than a hypothetical game. This is true, sure. However, I do think there's a connection between comparing seasons and a hypothetical game. Using the season stats, and assuming, say 1,000 game simulations, you'd come out with the average outcome - which could be used as the individual hypothetical game.
So I'll comfortably say 2019 LSU would struggle much more with 1995 Nebraska than November/December LSU would. Just how it is. No idea who wins either way, that's too much to think about one way or the other. Can only say Playoff LSU would have a better chance win or lose than mid-season LSU. This is fine, but it's also true from all teams in any season. And something that's true for everyone, to me, doesn't need to be accounted for or even considered.
What I like about that '95 Huskers team is the near complete lack of mystery on offense. There was no confusion in teams' mind as to what was coming play by play, they were just completely powerless to stop it. That's impressive in a different way than an offense that does a lot of things and keeps you off balance. And those weren't just scrub teams they did it too, some of those teams were really good. It's easy to think a scheme that's been as figured out as the triple option wouldn't fare well now, but there were some pretty good ideas on defending it back then.....Nebraska was just flat better and didn't care. I think LSU's passing game was the same way, by the end of the season. Just going by the results and the ultimate confidence Burrow had (with quotes, not just the eye of the tiger, lol), LSU knew the opponent wasn't going to stop them, no matter who it was.
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Been going on 10+ years now, it's looking doubtful. The problem compounds because one major thing that stops so many daily activities leads to a much less active lifestyle, which then creates it's own problems with conditioning, body chemistry, and a host of other things, as I have learned.
On a very limited basis, I have been able to make some simple trips for a few days, even if I can't do much on them. We honeymooned last year in the hill country and made it back to Austin this year for our anniversary. Wife really likes the area and we'll probably keep that up.
Next time I'll try to meet up with utee to catch up. If he thinks I'm trolling him now, just wait til he sees me in person.
Of course by then Texas will have beaten LSU in Tiger Stadium, so the job is going to be exponentially harder.
I'm sorry that your prognosis isn't better than that. May you receive the serenity that will help you cope with whatever things beyond your control you face.
Utee definitely needs to be trolled.
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Sort of discovered a couple of very similar national champions that I doubt anyone has linked in their minds:
2004 USC
2006 Florida
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04 USC
57/43 run/pass ratio, 8.2 yds per pass att, 4.7 yds per rush att, 5.7 allowed per pass att, 2.6 allowed per rush att
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06 UF
54/46 run/pass ratio, 8.3 yds per pass att, 4.7 yds per rush att, 5.6 allowed per pass att, 2.7 allowed per rush att
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The Trojans are remembered as sexier on offense, for sure. They had more stars you could name, perhaps. Both had blowout wins in the BCSNCG. USC was more efficent on offense, scoring more.
But I doubt any of us (myself included) that these 2 teams were so similar in terms of per-play numbers. These were the preview years for Bush, Tebow, and Harvin. They'd each go on to explode onto the scene the season after. Maybe its a testament of the great coaching of Meyer that his offense with Leak, Wynn, Baker, and Caldwell moved the ball as well as Leinart, White, Bush, and Jarrett.
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Are they?
I remember 2004 USC much more for defense than flashy offense. Really the NC game vs. OU was the first time I thought "Crap....where did THIS offense come from?" That was kind of the prelude to 2005 USC.
Similarly, the 2006 Florida team was more or less NOT Meyer's spread offense....until the NC game vs. Ohio State. They used some of those looks at times but they weren't overly good at it in 2006. Florida looked much better that year pounding Wynn through A gaps and letting Leak do his standard fare. Tebow had some nice subs here and there. But it wasn't until the OSU game that I had a similar thought, as in "Holy.....where did this come from?" That game looked much more like the 2007 Gator offense than the 2006 offense.
Also, both defensive units were great. In fact, I'd probably peg both as about the second best defense Carroll and Meyer fielded at those schools. I like 2008 USC defense better, and I like the '08-09 Gators defense better. And yeah, I know I'm cheating by using two years for Florida, but it was all the same guys and they played largely the same, so in my mind they become one unit.
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Yeah that 08 USC defense with all 3 starting LBs drafted in the first round plus Taylor Mays at safety was disgusting.
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I'm not saying this out of any sympathy of fondness of USC but I kinda wish they didn't have that flukey loss to the Beavs in 08, would've loved to have seen them vs that Gator squad.
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I think that defense set a record for guys drafted, at the time.
It believe it was broken by LSU in the '13 draft, which took all those guys from the '11-'12 defense.
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Back to sort of the original topic...
Easier than talking about best ever is picking one contender to throw out. For me it's easily 2001 Miami. The main argument there is look at all the pro bowlers a decade later. That just doesn't move my needle even a little bit. That team had some scrapes, and against nobodies, which puts them behind the 8 ball compared to others in the discussion.
And not everybody was great THEN. i.e., Danielle Hunter excelling in the NFL doesn't retroactively improve his career at LSU so the "college team made up of NFL HOFs" is irrelevant if their production doesn't match.
I can picture that team losing, especially if they had a decent schedule to play through.
Can't say that for some others. You start getting into "it" factors. Dumb, but it sure does color our perceptions, doesn't it?
Can't really picture VY letting Texas lose a game, can you? I can't either. Can't imagine a team making Frasier's Nebraska break a serious sweat. Can't imagine a runaway record breaker like Burrow with a pick-your-poison offense not getting it done.
In the end, teams like that stand basically forever, because whatever arguments we come up with for or against them, nobody who knows anything can really fathom them losing.
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sooo... we all agree, UNL 1995 was the best ever. And 05 Texas was all smoke and mirrors.
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lulz
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Nebraska fans agree, at least.
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In the end, teams like that stand basically forever, because whatever arguments we come up with for or against them, nobody who knows anything can really fathom them losing.
Hopes and prayers that this is a joke.
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I assume this line of thinking went out the window once the first five years of the CFP yielded zero #1 teams winning the NC.
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Can't really picture VY letting Texas lose a game, can you? I can't either. Can't imagine a team making Frasier's Nebraska break a serious sweat.
I could when UTA was down 28-9 vs OKST in 2005.
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As for Frazier and UNL...
19 Iowa State
10 Nebraska
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Maybe I'm just real imaginative....
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All of the talk about Miami's drafted players from 00-02 era has sprung a myth that they weren't all that in the moment. They were #1 all year. They had the Maxwell winner at QB, the Lombardi winner at LT, and a 2x consensus all-american at safety. Coker was the national coach of the year (with Friedgen). They had a WR and a TE no one could cover. They averaged 43 pts per game and allowed under 10. They caused 4 turnovers per game.
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This is a case of people being unable to understand that they had all that talent that was drafted AND were great at the time. I mean seriously, the least-talented guy in their starting lineup won the Maxwell Award (Dorsey). That's really all you need to know.
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I could when UTA was down 28-9 vs OKST in 2005.
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But that's precisely it. Texas won that game 47-28. That's why folks can't picture VY letting Texas lose a game.
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As for Frazier and UNL...
19 Iowa State
10 Nebraska
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Maybe I'm just real imaginative....
well, that was 1992, Tommie's true frosh season, maybe his 3rd start and late in the second quarter, Frazier limped to the locker room with a bruised left knee.
He played the whole second half, but Nebraska gained just 81 yards in the final 30 minutes. From the middle of the second quarter to the middle of the fourth, the Huskers punted on seven straight possessions.
“Frazier played hurt,” Osborne said. “He wasn’t able to do some things in the second half that he was in the first.
Read more: https://dataomaha.com/huskers/history/game/1992-11-14-iowa-state#ixzz6Bm4DYoDJ
Husker QB Tommie Frazier was NU's leading rusher with 92 yards and completed a 15-yard pass to Lance Lewis for the only Husker touchdown on the day.
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But that's precisely it. Texas won that game 47-28. That's why folks can't picture VY letting Texas lose a game.
He got shut out in the RRR. Hard to be unbeatable when you don't score a point.
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well, that was 2004, soph season
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lol
I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE HIM LOSING!!!!
points out a time he lost
THAT WAS A DIFFERENT SEASON
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Those who ignore the past are doomed to.............BE SO PERFECT, ONE CANNOT EVEN FATHOM A LOSS!
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This is all so silly.
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He got shut out in the RRR. Hard to be unbeatable when you don't score a point.
Again, a completely different year. Between Frazier and VY, you seem to be having trouble with timelines and whatnot.
If you want to take a shot at him for 2005, he struggled against a bad Texas A&M team. But still won the game and all.
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lol
I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE HIM LOSING!!!!
points out a time he lost
THAT WAS A DIFFERENT SEASON
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Those who ignore the past are doomed to.............BE SO PERFECT, ONE CANNOT EVEN FATHOM A LOSS!
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This is all so silly.
Someone here is certainly acting silly.
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This is all so silly.
It's your silly conversation. Don't start silly if you don't want to see silly.
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I'm enjoying the silly
I'm easily entertained
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I remember that 2001 Miami team well.
You may disagree, but you asked about this goofiness, and I'm telling you.
Not everybody who is remembered as NFL greats was even a massive contributor on that Canes team. The schedule wasn't impressive. Squeaking by Va Tech wasn't impressive. Ken Dorsey wasn't impressive then and 58% comp% for 2,652 and 23/9 doesn't impress me now, even for that time period. Hell, Rohan Davey threw for 500 more yards that same year with a lot less overall talent around him.
The 2001 Canes will be remembered as one of the greatest collections of raw talent, rightfully so. The QB isn't part of that group, and that's a big, key position when considering the quality and potential of a team.
What they actually did with that talent and how they actually played on the field, they aren't getting in the same conversation as the others.
Also, I can't even begin to fathom your point about VY losing a game in 2004 or Frasier losing a game 3 or 4 years prior to the season we're talking about. Joe Burrow lost some games last year. Didn't make much difference this year. That 2001 Canes team returned a ton of the same guys, losing a few of the key contributors and couldn't even beat an Ohio State team with Krenzel as their QB. I mean if we're talking about different years then losing to Ohio State in 2002 counts against the 2001 Canes.
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Okay, timeout.
My cherry-picking individual losses from previous seasons was a silly response to the absurdity of "I can't even imagine them losing".
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Just the sheer illogicality of that statement was enough for me to "go there". :91:
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Everybody's always wrong but you, OAM. ~???
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So I post about logical vs illogical, and you take away that I think I'm never wrong? Mkay.
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that's not logical
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Anyway, I think the poll did its job. I don't think it's a knock on Texas at all, but when you have a one-man gang (or if that's the opinion of the masses), that reliance on one player can bite you vs another big-boy team.
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This poll doesn't suggest 19 LSU would beat 05 Texas 8 out of 10 or 6 out of 10, but in a one-shot deal, gun-to-your-head, it'd be the team most would pick to lose to the Bayou Burreaux.
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Thanks for playing.
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CFB51 Poll Confirms-- Most people are idiots.
Fine job everyone. :)
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Best College Football Team of all Time: 2019 LSU vs 1995 Nebraska vs 2001 Miami - By The Numbers - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdPsUzlT3ss&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1OYOdLuTOrBTGbWNr3iIGdsbvGf2_7Ba5f8u3hzdtf3_Wa0gbCgV5uFqU)
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I like the name college football nerds, I'd fit right in and all, but damn - that video was about 20 minutes that could have been 3. Not any crazy math or anything - not as nerdy as advertised.
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Best College Football Team of all Time: 2019 LSU vs 1995 Nebraska vs 2001 Miami - By The Numbers - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdPsUzlT3ss&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1OYOdLuTOrBTGbWNr3iIGdsbvGf2_7Ba5f8u3hzdtf3_Wa0gbCgV5uFqU)
TL; DW
The answer is known-- None of those three.
The End. :)
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How would 05 Texas get past 08 Florida though? They're mirror images of each other, but one actually played defense and didn't turn the ball over. >:D
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hah, Big 12 defenses are doomed
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I caught some of the 2008 NCG between OU and Florida on Youtube. OU defenders were saying Tebow would have been the 4th-best QB in the XII that year. He passed for 230 and ran for 109 that night.
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What they didn't count on was their 60-point a game offense only scoring 14. Oops.
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hah, Big 12 defenses are doomed
Lulz. Now you're just pandering.
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that's sounds different than pot stirring
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Well evidently you've gotten better at what ever it is you do
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experience
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None better than Fearless Frankie.
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I'm a bit surprised really that some (not here) view this LSU team as some kind of awesome one of a kind thing. I'm not sure they are the best team of the last ten. Impossible to know of course, but I felt they are a very very good team but not as dominating as some I've seen out there.
If you said they are among the top 10% of all champions, I'd lean to agreeing.
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wish the Buckeyes would have had a shot at LSU
LSU very well may have defeated the Bucks, but I'd guess the game would have been close.
closer than 42-25
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Yeah, I thought all year OSU was the most complete team. But defending Burrow was not something most could manage.
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Chase young may have helped manage and I think perhaps Justin Fields would have been better trying to keep up
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Well it's not often a team scores 48+ points per game and wins the national championship. Plus, thanks to the playoff and the SECCG opponent, you could argue no one ended a season better, so they finished with an uptick.
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2013 FSU had better scoring and scoring prevention numbers. They destroyed everyone until Auburn in the NCG. I'd take them over '19 LSU. But the juiciest matchup of '19 LSU vs a champion from the past 10 years would definitely be 2011 Alabama. Perhaps the best pass defense of all time AND they didn't allow rushing yards. It would just be fun to watch.
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8-team tournament (based on season instead of seedings):
19 LSU (Burrow) vs 12 Alabama (Lacy/Yeldon) winner
vs
16 Clemson (Watson) vs 15 Alabama (Henry) winner
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17 Alabama (Hurts/Tua) vs 14 Ohio St (Elliott)
vs
18 Clemson (Lawrence) vs 13 FSU (Winston)