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Topic: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?

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CWSooner

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2020, 02:45:07 PM »
Glad to see the posts.  Sad to see the lack of carefully reading the title of the thread...
Communication is a two-way street.

In 20/20 (or, as Cam Newton would have it, 50/50), perhaps the combination of subject line and question could have been worded more clearly.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2020, 03:56:07 PM »
Communication is a two-way street.

In 20/20 (or, as Cam Newton would have it, 50/50), perhaps the combination of subject line and question could have been worded more clearly.
I re-read them both...and both ask the same question.  I guess some people can't be bothered to care if they're understanding what they're reading.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2020, 07:58:00 PM »
That's what every lousy comedian thinks when the audience doesn't get his jokes.
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FearlessF

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2020, 09:28:46 PM »
If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick to beat them?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2020, 11:45:56 AM »
That's what every lousy comedian thinks when the audience doesn't get his jokes.
So while the same question is posed two different ways, you're saying they're both unclear.  And that's the most likely scenario?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2020, 11:56:49 AM »
If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick to beat them?
'19 LSU as I see them is basically '94 Penn State + 25 years of evolution.  
LSU's average score was 48-22, PSU's was 47-21.
Penn State ran more.
Both were great offenses with 'good enough' defenses.
LSU's pass D was a little better.
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But basically, if you were to group all-time great teams into families, they'd be in the same family.  So for historical-sake, any team you'd pick to beat '94 PSU would have a decent chance at '19 LSU.
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The team would need great pass D.  Solid run D.  An offense capable of keeping up.  Ideally an offense that held onto the ball (TOP).  
So your great Nebraska teams would have a good shot.  '97 Michigan has the pass D, but not an offense that could keep up.  You have your '01 Miamis and '04/'05 USCs that could maybe out-talent LSU.  
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I'm not sure a mad pass-rush would even matter, as good as Burrow was at escaping.  
One of the earlier Saban NC Bama teams would probably work - ball-control, elite pass D.  
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Idk, it's just fun to think about.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2020, 12:11:42 PM »
Bill James spent some time classifying all-time great baseball players into 'famiilies' based not just on their quality, but on their type - doubles vs triples/steals vs HRs, etc. 
It would be a fun exercise to do the same with college football teams.  Base it on run/pass ratio, yards per play, yards per play allowed, and types of offenses/defenses -
Air Raid Family - some teams from Hawai'i, BYU, Texas Tech, etc....then further break those down into sub-groups
Option Families - one branch of traditional option (Nebraska, service academies, many 70s helmet programs) and another branch of spread read-option (WV w/ White, Florida w/ Tebow, Auburn w/ Newton, Nevada w/ Kap, etc)
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One thing would be that individual programs would vary among the families - '71 Nebraska wouldn't be in the same family as '95 Nebraska.  Even under the same HC, there would be variations - '14 OSU and '18 OSU were verrrry different under Meyer.  '97 Tennessee and '98 Tennessee were worlds apart under Fulmer.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2020, 08:48:24 AM »
I don't think the LSU defense was "elite", very good no doubt, but not elite.  I'd go with Nebbie all day.

Burrow had the best year I've ever seen from a QB.  

FearlessF

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2020, 09:44:22 AM »
'
So your great Nebraska teams would have a good shot.  '97 Michigan has the pass D, but not an offense that could keep up.  You have your '01 Miamis and '04/'05 USCs that could maybe out-talent LSU. 
.
I'm not sure a mad pass-rush would even matter, as good as Burrow was at escaping. 
well, the 95 Huskers pass D was great because of the pass-rush as illustrated vs Florida in the Fiesta

not sure even Burrow could escape that enough times to move the ball regularly 
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MrNubbz

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2020, 09:50:52 AM »
I dunno he picked up a 1st on 3rd and 19 right before the half.Then threw for 6 with 14 seconds left
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2020, 10:19:52 AM »
well, the 95 Huskers pass D was great because of the pass-rush as illustrated vs Florida in the Fiesta

not sure even Burrow could escape that enough times to move the ball regularly
They actually didn't have a ton of sacks that year, they just exploited Florida's simple pass protection scheme.  Credit McBride and fault Spurrier for not caring enough to worry about it.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2020, 10:23:48 AM »
I certainly fault Spurrier for not making in game adjustment.

Seemed that everytime Wuerffel had an empty backfield, the Blackshirts blitzed

Easy adjustment to keep a back or TE in to block
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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2020, 02:26:45 PM »
There can be no "right answer" of course, some might think last year's Clemson team would beat LSU this year, and well they might.  It's not as if this Clemson team was demolished.   I'd look for a team that thrashed everyone they played by large margins.


MikeDeTiger

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Re: If '19 LSU was all-time great, who would you pick them to beat?
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2020, 03:12:36 PM »
Doesn't really matter because there is no comparing across eras, even the way OAM is suggesting to do it.  Forget '71 Nebraska, even the '95 version is significantly behind modern teams in terms of athletic training and nutritional advancements.  

Would '95 Nebraska have any clue how to stop an RPO play?  Nope.  Would 2019 LSU score a bazillion points if rules hadn't changed so much to favor offenses?  Nope.  Would Nebraska's defense still be fundamentally sound and would LSU still score a lot of points?  Probably so.  

I mentioned this on the SEC board.....my wife is a Longhorn fan and due to life stuff she missed out on the 2005 season and some others, so a few months back we watched the Rose Bowl classic vs. USC because I thought she should see it.  It was immediately striking how much the game had changed even since then.  If that game were played by today's rules both Texas and USC would've had multiple defenders ejected in the first few minutes for targeting.  From that same era, guys like Florida's Reggie Nelson and LSU's Laron Landry would've never been greats for their schools because they'd have spent their entire careers in the penalty box.  

It's just not as simple as adjusting for eras, because that's a fool's errand. 

Fearless says LSU hasn't seen a triple option in years.  Other than the one they saw this year, yes, it's been a couple seasons since the last triple option they saw.  None of them have fared well.  None of them had Nebraska's talent either.  

utee94 says Vince Young would not lose to this LSU team.  Okay, I counter Joe Burrow would not lose to that Texas team.  

You start to see how silly this is.  There's not much to back up any claims.  Hell, there's more substance to this year's Ohio State vs. LSU debate, and even that is rampant speculation.  

I will say you guys keep talking about LSU's defense this year as a bad thing.  OAM would have to specify what he means when he says "2019 LSU."  If you look at season-long stats, you've got one thing.  LSU took some lumps while they scratched their scheme in-season and more importantly, had a slew of guys injured starting in game 2 who didn't come back until later in the year.  But the numbers are what they are from a season-long perspective, if that's what you're comparing.  If you mean the LSU team that made it into the playoffs, then it's a mistake to use season-long numbers.  There is no comparing the defense that was missing multiple starters until week 11 or so to the defense that was on the field in the last 4-5 games.  Different personnel with different capabilities with very different outcomes.  OAM keeps saying the defense was weak.  Well, yes, the one that played Florida was (and really they weren't weak, they were "not great").  Despite CWS' claims here that LSU likes to fake cramps, the reality is 6 guys left the Texas game in week 2, 4 of whom did not return to the game, and more would be lost for several weeks in subsequent games against NWSt. and Vanderbilt.  Sure, LSU looks different without half of its starters.  Which begs the question, which LSU defense do you mean when you criticize the 2019 LSU defense?  The season-long numbers?  Sure.  Not LSU's best.  The unit that was in the playoffs and held OU to 14 meaningful points and Clemson to 25...OU quadrupling that and Clemson doubling it on average?  You're kidding yourself if you don't think that was a very good defense.  

I just don't think there's a meaningful conversation to be had about Greatest Team Of All Time.  

Greatest season of all time?  Have at it.  Each of the usual suspects have a case.  And it's simultaneously hard to argue against the skins on LSU's wall this year.

That said, I'm totally picking 2005 Texas just to annoy utee.  Somebody not named Joe Burrow is gonna have to reclaim the DKR single game passing record before I budge an inch on that :)

Y'all don't show this to my wife.  

 

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