Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

[SFBadger96]

There is definitely much more to it. Bails have been going lower and lower over the past 3.5 years - this is proven and true. It starts with the Crook County States Attorney's office. It's a very complicated subject, and a key issue that should be talked about a whole lot more than it is. But, talking about it is not a comfortable subject, and people don't like to be uncomfortable. Know what I'm saying?

Crystal clear.

In San Francisco, they eliminated cash bail this year, I think (might have been at the end of last year). But they didn't do away with bail. Rather than having a cash bail system based on the charged crime, they implemented a more threat-based system. The State tried to eliminate bash bail last year, but, surprise, surprise, the bail bonds industry got it put on the ballot for this year. From the LA Times:

But the law also [color=var(--primaryBodyLinkColor)]spelled disaster for the bail industry[/url] at large. Los Angeles is home to the largest jail system in the country, and California accounts for roughly a quarter of the nation’s multibillion-dollar bail market. (In an interesting aside: [color=var(--primaryBodyLinkColor)]Only two countries in the world[/color] have a money bail system reliant on commercial bail bondsmen — the United States and the Philippines.)[/font][/size][/color]
The statewide referendum to overturn SB 10
A day after Brown signed the bill, a national coalition of bail agency groups launched a referendum drive to overturn it. By January 2019, it had collected more than enough signatures to qualify the measure for the November 2020 ballot.

A key point: the state/county criminal justice systems don't profit in any meaningful way from the cash bond system. But there is an industry that does. That industry has no particular interest in an effective criminal justice system, unlike the government employees (cops, DAs, PDs, judges, etc.) who take oaths to protect the people, including both society at-large and individuals accused of criminal conduct.

More on this: a federal judge had found SF's system unconstitutional, and part of it was modified in a settlement of that lawsuit last year. There's a lot of information here, and plenty of ways to read it to suit your personal bias/opinion, but--again--much more to this story. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Federal-judge-OKs-settlement-abolishing-cash-bail-14414216.php

[FearlessF]

What about the bail bondsman? Its responsibility, too?

Part of the issue here is that accused criminals, released on bond, sometimes commit other crimes. There is nothing surprising about that. The judge who makes the bail decision takes that into account, and attempts to set an appropriate bond. Is there any research here indicating what percentage of the time something awful like this happened? Is that number an appropriate number? Is there any discussion of that percentage compared to the percentage of people the non-profit paid the bond for who did something horrible? Is there any connection between the overall number and the non-profit number?

But that doesn't make for a juicy story. I think elsewhere we've been discussing the media and what makes it tick/pays its bills. Unsurprisingly, there is more to this story than the article tells. Much more.

I agree with everything you are stating.  I just have a problem with a policy that they are bragging about........... some charges are more horrible than others


“I think that we are forthright. We’re very clear whenever we’re asked that we don’t make distinctions based on charge,” said Sharlyn Grace, executive director of the Chicago Community Bond Fund.

[FearlessF]

Crystal clear.

A key point: the state/county criminal justice systems don't profit in any meaningful way from the cash bond system. But there is an industry that does. That industry has no particular interest in an effective criminal justice system, unlike the government employees (cops, DAs, PDs, judges, etc.) who take oaths to protect the people, including both society at-large and individuals accused of criminal conduct.

for the love of God, can't there be a bit of common sense?

wouldn't it be OK, for folks in the bail bond industry to do SOMETHING else to make a living?

[betarhoalphadelta]

Still waiting to be selected for jury duty (at a time when I actually have the flexibility for it, of course).

That reminds me. I got a jury summons, and it's for next week.

But it looks like I'm excused: https://www.occourts.org/media-relations/covid/Jury_Services_4_23_2020.pdf

[SFBadger96]

for the love of God, can't there be a bit of common sense?

wouldn't it be OK, for folks in the bail bond industry to do SOMETHING else to make a living?

Like just about everything else, there are legitimate reasons this industry cropped up, and they aren't all bad. And the industry itself has largely been corrupted by the easiest way to increase profits, which has been to prey on the desperate poor.

[Cincydawg]

I think our top national problem is deficit spending, in part because I don't think it can be fixed without the final catastrophe.

[847badgerfan]

Like just about everything else, there are legitimate reasons this industry cropped up, and they aren't all bad. And the industry itself has largely been corrupted by the easiest way to increase profits, which has been to prey on the desperate poor.

Sounds like we need to disappear most of the industry, no?


I'm hiring engineers. Maybe they could help.

[SFBadger96]

Agreed. I don't think it will require engineers, though. :-)

[CWSooner]

All of us MIGHT HAVE dementia at an early stage.  It's not easy to spot casually.  By the time a man passes 70, the odds obviously start to climb.  And we could elect some 70 year old President who was fine and 2 years later ....

We do have the 25th Amendment, which some wanted to employ with the current President a year or so back. 

That Amendment is not the clearest thing in the world, to me.

There has been some speculation that the candidate with dementia would be paired with a very ideologically desirable VP nominee and, should he win, the VP would replace him via the 25th Amendment.
Like a lot of speculation that later turns out to be inaccurate, it's plausible.

[FearlessF]

candidate with dementia , should he win

good luck

[Cincydawg]

There is a nice article on 538 about replacing a candidate before or after the convention and after the election but before inauguration.

After the convention, the DNC can do whatever it wants.  They could put Cuomo in the top spot if they convince Biden to sit it out.

[FearlessF]

so, Hillary has a chance

lovely

[CWSooner]

There is a nice article on 538 about replacing a candidate before or after the convention and after the election but before inauguration.

After the convention, the DNC can do whatever it wants.  They could put Cuomo in the top spot if they convince Biden to sit it out.

Cuomo may not come out of the coronavirus crisis looking as good as he has so far.  The State of New York has been paying obscene amounts to some ridiculous "vendors."

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosalindadams/after-one-tweet-to-president-trump-this-man-got-69-million

[Cincydawg]

Whether he comes out in reality looking good of course isn't nearly as important as imagery.

I of course don't know if they'd pick him, or even if they try to railroad Biden, I only note "they" could.  I don't think they would choose anyone who declared and ran.

The imagery of that would be awful.