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Topic: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

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847badgerfan

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2019, 01:49:03 PM »
I'd still like to see what Saban could have done at MSU, or what he could have done at a place like Utah.
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Entropy

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2019, 01:52:37 PM »
Bill Snyder.
I like this vote.  Saban could not even own his own state while at MSU.  Suddenly, he goes to the SEC and his dominant.  I have no doubt Saban would have been just average at a place like KSU.   In fact, I don't think he could do what Tom Osborne did at Nebraska.   


I'm not saying Saban doesn't deserve the GOAT, but I also can't help but remember what he accomplished at MSU vs in the SEC when he had the money, support and talent in his back yard.

FearlessF

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2019, 02:14:00 PM »
my vote always goes to Wild Bill Snyder

probably because he was respected by Doc Tom and Barry Sweatshirt
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SFBadger96

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2019, 02:16:24 PM »
People undersell Saban at Michigan State. He took over a program in shambles and turned it around. It wasn't instantaneous, but it was notable. LSU hired him away because he was doing impressive things in East Lansing.

Alabama post-Stallings looks a lot like Tennessee post-Fulmer, until Saban arrived.

Coaching matters, and Saban--not the SEC, and not Bear Bryant nor Gene Stallings--is the reason Alabama is what it is today. And what it is is dominant despite playing the most competitive CFB era.

Cincydawg

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2019, 02:18:26 PM »
So, 70.87032 % of opinions are for Bill Snyder.

847badgerfan

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2019, 02:18:43 PM »
People undersell Saban at Michigan State. He took over a program in shambles and turned it around. It wasn't instantaneous, but it was notable. LSU hired him away because he was doing impressive things in East Lansing.

Alabama post-Stallings looks a lot like Tennessee post-Fulmer, until Saban arrived.

Coaching matters, and Saban--not the SEC, and not Bear Bryant nor Gene Stallings--is the reason Alabama is what it is today. And what it is is dominant despite playing the most competitive CFB era.
Right. I would have just liked to see a couple more years at MSU. We all know why he left.
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rolltidefan

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2019, 03:47:45 PM »
I like this vote.  Saban could not even own his own state while at MSU.  Suddenly, he goes to the SEC and his dominant.  I have no doubt Saban would have been just average at a place like KSU.  In fact, I don't think he could do what Tom Osborne did at Nebraska. 


I'm not saying Saban doesn't deserve the GOAT, but I also can't help but remember what he accomplished at MSU vs in the SEC when he had the money, support and talent in his back yard.
this is probably true, but the reciprocal is also probably true.

saban has more resources at bama than all but a few other places could give him. but what he's done with those resources is nothing short of phenomenal. people always say the reason he sends more to nfl than anyone else is because he gets more 4-5 stars than anyone else, which is true. but he also sends those type recruits to nfl at a better rate than any other school, so he does more with the best than anyone else as well.

and the sustained success is remarkable and unprecedented. with this weeks rankings, he now has bama at #1 during a season for 12 straight seasons, and ncaa record.

i'm bias, obviously, but i think saban has a pretty strong case for goat.

having said that, snyder is definitely up there as well, for different reasons. that guy was phenomenal as well, taking probably the worst team in d1 (dead last in win% at time of hire) and turning them respectable, even great for a short while.

urban is hard to judge. there's no arguing he gets results and is a great coach. but there's just something about his short tenures and ready made success at the bigger schools that throws me off. definitely one of the best, though.

spurrier is an all time great, but more in the 10-15 range than 1-3 range. even in last 30 years, he's not the best, imo.

other recent coaches worth mentioning: bowden, paterno, dabo?, patterson (at tcu has done really well and deserves some cred, though not #1 cred), sweatervest, pete carroll, big game bob

Cincydawg

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2019, 04:04:14 PM »
I'd have Spurrier more around 5.473rd.

MrNubbz

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2019, 04:08:35 PM »
Been pretty wild had Superior stayed at FLA,Pete Clairol at USC,and Chippy at Oregon.Wonder how much things would have been different.Prolly better Mark Richt moved along
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2019, 04:29:58 PM »
What I think makes this difficult is that I believe that the skill set necessary to do what Saban has done at Bama is almost completely different from the skill set necessary to do what Bill Snyder did at KSU.  That makes it hard to compare the two because it is apples and oranges.  

FearlessF

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2019, 04:37:18 PM »
Urban or Saint Nick?

I'd say Nick head to head coaching

Urban as a TV talking head, hands down
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2019, 04:40:37 PM »
Been pretty wild had Superior stayed at FLA,Pete Clairol at USC,and Chippy at Oregon.Wonder how much things would have been different.Prolly better Mark Richt moved along
Carroll at USC in the CFP era would have been scary IMHO.  Carroll's Achilles heel at USC was repeatedly losing a random mid-season game to a vastly inferior team (much like tOSU has done the past two years).  In the BCS era that closed the Trojans out of the NC race more often than not but in the CFP era it likely would not have had the same impact.  Carroll was near-perfect in bigtime matchups.  

He coached the Trojans from 2001-2009.  2001 was somewhat transitional, after that through 2008:
  • 2002:  He had two early losses (9/21 at KSU by a TD and 10/5 at WSU by a FG).  At the end of the year they were a machine.  Probably would have missed the CFP anyway.  
  • 2003:  Missed the BCSNCG due to an early upset loss to a Cal team that finished barely over .500.  In the CFP they would have been in, and IMHO, probably would have won it.  
  • 2004:  Undefeated NC, whipped OU in the CG.  
  • 2005:  Lost to TX in BCSNCG (one of Carroll's few big game losses).  
  • 2006:  Lost close to a good OrSU team then inexplicably lost to a barely over .500 UCLA team on the last weekend of the season.  Could potentially have won a CFP . . . if they had gotten in.  
  • 2007:  Inexplicably lost at home to a Stanford team that finished 4-8, also lost at Oregon.  If they had made the CFP they could have won it.  
  • 2008:  Lost on the road to a good but not great OrSU team.  If they had made the CFP they could have won it.  
By my count that is four times that upset losses cost them a shot where with a CFP they might have gotten their shot anyway.  If he wins two of those he would have had 3 NC's in seven years.  


rolltidefan

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2019, 04:45:10 PM »
carroll was probably the perfect fit for sc. really good coach.

847badgerfan

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Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2019, 08:58:09 PM »
If the more with less card is going to come up.. King Barry. BCS bowl wins and built a program that will, more likely than not, stand for the long haul.

Only OSU, Clemson and OU have won more games in the past 15 years, and that is a result of what that man built. And he built it from... Nothing. Not a helmet. Not anything. Nothing.


Sorry. Not counting Boise and such...
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