header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level

 (Read 24424 times)

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71094
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #490 on: July 09, 2021, 12:28:49 PM »
I don't think it's ideal for towing 10,000 pounds 80 miles, but it could do it, I think.  

It would take a while to recharge of course.

I think that truck is fascinating, the first EV I've seen that may make sense for quite a few folks out there, the cost is not so extreme apparently.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17617
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #491 on: July 09, 2021, 12:33:22 PM »

I rarely tow the boat more than 50 or 60 miles one-way.  But how's the tow vehicle going to charge while I'm on the lake and it's parked at a boat ramp or a campground and not a service station or my home?

I regularly tow the RV up to 350 miles in a day.  An EV tow vehicle is a complete non-starter for that use case, and likely will be for a very long time.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71094
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #492 on: July 09, 2021, 12:39:33 PM »
At some point as this becomes more prevalent, boat docks will have fast chargers.  So will McDonalds etc.  I don't think towing a large RV is going to be an EV thing for a long time, but towing a boat 80 miles looks plausible.

My main point is for a lot of normal F150 use, this Lightning could be a very good option, not all obviously, but a lot, maybe half or more.

We have two fast chargers at our building now, I occasionally see a car hooked up.  I could seriously consider an EV now, but the price doesn't work for me, yet.

The price of the Lightning is competitive I think.  Consider someone who uses a normal F150 for work and whether they could use the L.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71094
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #493 on: July 09, 2021, 02:00:47 PM »
Can I Tow with an EV? (caranddriver.com)

We wouldn't recommend it. When manufacturers design EVs, towing isn't top of mind. Several models on the market today don't have tow ratings, and those that do can tug only modest loads. It makes sense: EVs are aerodynamically slippery, and attaching a trailer to one is like strapping a parachute and ankle weights on a marathon runner.

Of the 11 vehicles featured in our EV of the Year test, the Audi e-tron is rated to tow the most, 4000 pounds, which made it the perfect test bed to pull 3859 pounds of ski boat and trailer. We drove at the speed limit on a 60-mile loop—80 percent of it on a 70-mph interstate—with and without the boat in tow, and not that surprisingly, the vehicle reported twice the consumption with the skiff on its bumper. Twice the consumption means half the range.


Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71094
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #494 on: July 09, 2021, 05:11:29 PM »
For serious towing, the often mentioned 250(0) with a hybrid turbo diesel would fit the bill nicely, perhaps a plugin that could manage ten miles on batteries, and have a 110 outlet like the Lightning and regen braking.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71094
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #495 on: July 09, 2021, 06:09:49 PM »
2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 Has Living-Room Comfort, Hatchback Utility (caranddriver.com)

Potentially 68 miles recharge range in 5 minutes.

Hyundai says it's planning 23 new electrics by 2023, and we'll also be seeing versions from Kia, and Genesis. So if the 5 doesn’t charge you up, stay tuned for more, and if it does, we should start seeing them here in the States by fall of 2021.

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2134
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #496 on: July 09, 2021, 06:40:14 PM »
I rarely tow the boat more than 50 or 60 miles one-way.  But how's the tow vehicle going to charge while I'm on the lake and it's parked at a boat ramp or a campground and not a service station or my home?

I regularly tow the RV up to 350 miles in a day.  An EV tow vehicle is a complete non-starter for that use case, and likely will be for a very long time.
Assuming the vehicle gets half the range while towing it will just have to wait until they can make very large batteries more affordable and the charging time for these batteries comes down. 

Unless someone invents a battery chemistry with a much higher energy desnsity. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17617
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #497 on: July 09, 2021, 08:30:33 PM »
Battery technology has advanced quite a bit in the past 20-40 years.

But it's still basically stone-age relative to the advancements in CPUs/ICs/silicon over the same period.


Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2134
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #498 on: July 09, 2021, 10:08:03 PM »
Battery technology has advanced quite a bit in the past 20-40 years.

But it's still basically stone-age relative to the advancements in CPUs/ICs/silicon over the same period.
Since you’re in that industry, and by some extent have exposure to lithium battery tech and pricing....where do you see it heading?  Massive innovation?  Limited by chemistry and physics?  

Myself I see small gains in energy density, large drops in cost, modest gains in charge times.  

it’s possible something may prove superior to lithium tech, but for the next 20+ years it’s going to rule. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17617
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #499 on: July 09, 2021, 10:14:41 PM »
Since you’re in that industry, and by some extent have exposure to lithium battery tech and pricing....where do you see it heading?  Massive innovation?  Limited by chemistry and physics? 

Myself I see small gains in energy density, large drops in cost, modest gains in charge times. 

it’s possible something may prove superior to lithium tech, but for the next 20+ years it’s going to rule.

Yup, I see the same thing you do.

But I'll say this-- every time I completely discount battery tech, they make a major advancement that surprises me.  Even so, your 20-year horizon looks appropriate to me,


Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71094
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #500 on: July 10, 2021, 07:09:19 AM »
What we have seen to date is of course suggestive of what we will see in the future, but we can't know.

I attended an interesting all day seminar on batteries back in the day, 1995 or so, as our company had bought Duracell and they wanted to get suggestions from our group.  I remember the challenge of packing energy stably into a small affordable package.  It has some apparent inherent limits.  You can theorize of course packing more energy in chemically, but stability becomes a problem (and these were not rechargeable).  And forget about cost, they wanted a Super AA battery at even triple the current cost.

There were some interesting suggestions from the crowd (none from me).  None of them were practicable.  Electrochemistry is pretty well worked out, folks in that area know the potential (ha) couples one can envision, and the problems with each.  Making it rechargeable is one of the key issues.

Is there a breakthrough out there?  Double or triple power density?  Maybe, I tend to doubt it.  Lower cost and faster recharging?  Probably.  Better packaging?  Almost certainly.  I don't know to what extent the current batteries are integrated into the frames, I'm sure it's a lot, but probably suboptimal.

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12128
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #501 on: July 10, 2021, 11:23:02 AM »

Myself I see small gains in energy density, large drops in cost, modest gains in charge times. 
Nature of this market is that large reductions in cost mostly come from large gains in energy density.

I don't think material costs or manufacturing costs are diminishing much. It's all density when it gets down to it.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18796
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #502 on: July 10, 2021, 12:57:10 PM »
This may be a stupid question, but I have the luxury of not being held in high esteem:
You know how they have chargers for phones that you just set the phone on the item?  Could that be a parking space charger for a car?  Beyond the "no, cars aren't phones" facepalm, would that same tech work on a car?
If your EV is being charged when parked at home, work, Target, and the hotel you're staying at, maybe that would be a good thing.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71094
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Electric Vehicles - Your Interest level
« Reply #503 on: July 10, 2021, 01:47:03 PM »
I discussed this previously, inductive charging, as you drive.  Large capital requirement of course and it's not very efficient, r squared etc.

I think it could be a reality in 50 years or so.  Maybe.  The EV might need to lower a plate to get very close to the charging coils.  And if you did this, you could also just blast cars down the road like a cannon too.  Em pulse cannons.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.