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Topic: Electric Vehicle News Items

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Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2338 on: January 04, 2025, 11:51:35 AM »


Not really "new news" though ...

847badgerfan

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2339 on: January 04, 2025, 11:55:06 AM »
Weird history.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2340 on: January 04, 2025, 11:56:20 AM »
So, where is all this EV stuff headed?

In Norway, it's a major deal.  You don't have to pay tolls with any EV there, which is major.  I think often you don't pay for parking either.  In Europe, it's "coming" albeit slower than many would like.  Sales are increasing but slower than forecast.  The US is the same, much slower than many hoped.  The reasons are pretty obvious.

Will California et al. stick to the 2025 edict?  They might especially if PHEVs are allowed to count.  I remain interested in PHEVs despite the fact they are doubly complex.  I wouldn't buy one, yet.  How much will all this impact global oil consumption by X date?  I don't know, for one things, more cars are being sold, so oil consumption will head up anyway barring economic meltdown until maybe 2032 or beyond.  What about CO2 generation?  Nope, it's not going to have a major impact on that for ... a while, MAYBE by 2050 it might be measurable.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2341 on: January 04, 2025, 01:26:34 PM »
So, where is all this EV stuff headed?
Ultimately, I see a lot of parallels to my own industry (data storage). There are a lot of technical advantages of a fully electric powertrain relative to internal combustion. Instant torque being one of them, for a different (improved?) driving experience. No tailpipe emissions causing local air pollution in densely-populated areas. Less mechanical complexity without needing a very complicated transmission to make it smooth and improve fuel efficiency like in an ICEV. More design freedom in the way that you can move mass (batteries) around that can lower the vehicle CoG and actually make it handle better. Reduced maintenance costs. Regenerative braking which is a range extender but also saves wear and tear on brakes. If you can charge at home, you may go months and months between "fueling" outside your own home--something that I think is an unheralded benefit. 

The problem(s) at this point are largely economic--battery capacity and cost is such that to have robust range, the only people who can realistically drive BEVs are people who are at the "luxury" end of the automotive spectrum. 

This is the same thing I saw in the storage industry. There are a lot of technical advantages for SSDs in the compute space--i.e. in your desktop, laptop, hosting your operating system and applications. Performance, power consumption, resistance to mechanical damage, and variety of form factor are a handful of those. But early in the transition, the cost of SSDs were simply too high. The only people who really could use them were gamers (who will spend crazy money for performance), and power users who typically use their PC to drive their business. People who were compiling code, doing video editing, or anything else where the storage was the bottleneck of their PC and slowed down their productivity absolutely were the first to make the switch. 

What eventually happened in the storage industry is that the cost came down enough that for "enough" capacity, SSDs could be on par with HDD or close enough that the benefits outweighed the cost savings. Ultimately an HDD is going to have a "floor cost", because there are certain aspects of the BOM that are simply non-negotiable. The industry kept pushing up capacity at that "floor cost" beyond what most people needed, while the SSD industry had a MUCH lower "floor cost" so they could reduce price by sacrificing capacity. If the lowest capacity HDD available at floor cost is 1TB, and the SSD industry can make a 256GB SSD for a lower cost than a 1TB HDD, the only people who still buy that HDD are those with "capacity anxiety"--but in our increasingly cloud-driven world where a lot of people don't need more than 100-150GB of local storage, people learned that they didn't actually need all that capacity. And now the industry has progressed to the point where 1TB SSDs are almost at parity with 1TB HDDs, and the HDD is basically not used anywhere for primary storage in the PC space. 

I think eventually we'll see that as the direction the BEV industry goes. Right now it's expensive and premium, and so people are looking for reasons NOT to buy one because they can't realistically afford it anyway. But pricing are dropping. It won't be too long before a 300 mi range BEV is at or better price parity with an ICEV. Once we hit that point, people will start asking why they want a smelly, loud, slow ICEV that they have to drive to the gas station once every week or two to fill up?

I also think that we'll start seeing more variety in the market. If you have a multi-family vehicle, and you can save a HUGE chunk of money to have a small 100 mi range "commuter car" just for going to work and back and various errands, but then you have your 300+ mi range car for when you need it, a new market might appear for those small reduced-range vehicles. Just as eventually we invented a market for Chromebooks, stripped-down PCs that didn't need much storage at all but were "good enough" for daily use when what most people need is essentially a thin client. My wife and I could easily get by with one 100 mi range vehicle and one "high range" vehicle. The number of times per month that we need >100 mi range in a day can probably be counted on one hand, and it's likely not going to require all the fingers. Especially if there are robust easily accessible public charging option--if we wanted to drive to LA for some reason (~60 mi) and could add back 30-40 mi of range while parked and doing whatever we're doing, a 100 mi range vehicle would easily cover the round trip. 

Does that mean ICEV will go away entirely? No, I don't think so. The truth is that there are some workloads where high uptime and low refueling time make it difficult to impossible for BEV to compete, and range/weight needs would make batteries cost prohibitive. (Note: we see the same in the SSD/HDD industry; SSDs dominate personal compute but HDDs absolutely dominate data center storage, a quickly growing demand driver.)

But ultimately it's going to come down to battery prices. They're coming down, but they're not there yet. 

I do think that for most consumers, by the time we get to 2035 a BEV won't just make technological sense, it'll make economic sense. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2342 on: January 04, 2025, 01:31:25 PM »
That sounds very plausible, to me, I'm not sure about the timing, and other very different options might become viable in the interim, at least in some applications (hydrogen fuel cells).  At this point, I personally chose a mild hybrid, and I think that was a solid choice for us.

I HOPE by 2035 that most folks see EVs as the better option overall.  I view that as a good outcome, if it is real.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2343 on: January 04, 2025, 02:43:29 PM »
Decarbonization of transport is underway. Here are future fuel predictions. | Knowable Magazine

The IEA’s pathway describes a massive, hard-to-enact shift across the entire world, including all kinds of transport. Their goal: to replace fossil fuels (which release long-captured carbon into the air, where it wreaks havoc on the climate) with something more sustainable, like green hydrogen or biofuels (which either don’t produce greenhouse gases at all or recycle the ones that are already in the air).

Although some transportation sectors are still in flux, we can now get a pretty good glimpse of what will likely be powering the ships, planes, trains and automobiles of tomorrow. Here’s a peek into that future.

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2344 on: January 04, 2025, 02:46:24 PM »
This would be funny if it wasn't so funny.


Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2345 on: January 04, 2025, 02:49:22 PM »

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2346 on: January 05, 2025, 09:17:31 AM »
If your EV has 300 miles of "range", it really only has 249, and if you routinely charge it only to 80%, it only has 192, unless the weather is cold and/or you are towing.


Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2347 on: January 05, 2025, 09:25:21 AM »
I got this gigantic e-bike last week that's basically like an electric dirt bike. It's providing me with a lot of entertainment. 

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2348 on: January 05, 2025, 09:30:01 AM »
did you also get the matching solar panel and windmill?

Pics, please
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2349 on: January 05, 2025, 11:31:39 AM »
Mercedes-Benz is rethinking braking systems for electric vehicles with its new "in-drive brake" concept. This design integrates the brakes directly into the drivetrain, eliminating traditional calipers and rotors. A circular brake pad connected to the motor's output shaft presses against a stationary water-cooled ring within an enclosed system.

Aimed to last the vehicle's lifetime without servicing, it reduces maintenance costs and captures brake dust—a significant urban pollutant—in a compartment that doesn't require emptying. By moving braking components away from the wheels, unsprung weight is lowered, improving handling and ride comfort. Currently undergoing testing, this innovation aligns with upcoming Euro 7 emissions standards and could set new benchmarks for EV braking technology.


Cincydawg

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2350 on: January 07, 2025, 08:22:35 AM »


Maybe, such projections are ... projections.  China seems to be shifting rapidly and that accounts for a lot of this.  Norway has shifted but doesn't amount to much.

FearlessF

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Re: Electric Vehicle News Items
« Reply #2351 on: January 07, 2025, 08:25:11 AM »
doesn't look like a skyrocket to me

and that many haven't been sold in 2025 yet
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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