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Topic: David (Bell) Against The Goliath (SOC 11/13/21)
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utee94 · « **Reply #252 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:16:29 AM »

Quote from: ELA on November 14, 2021, 08:34:49 PM

I always thought Herman should have gotten one more year. But I wasn't absolutely opposed to firing him...if you had a better option than Sark

Exactly this.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #253 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:18:02 AM »

Quote from: utee94 on November 15, 2021, 10:15:13 AM

Yup. I keep laughing at people that think Texas boosters and fans are different than any other helmet school. Texas has made bad hires.

Oklahoma went through multiple bad hires in short succession until they landed on Stoops. Alabama went through multiple bad hires in short succession until they landed on Saban. Were they "toxic" too because they made bad decisions? Laughable.

boosters do try to get way too involved- but the really good coaches usually have a way of shutting them down or handling them with ease.

FearlessF · « **Reply #254 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:20:29 AM »

and good ADs

Brutus Buckeye · « **Reply #255 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:20:39 AM »

You think it's bad now, just wait until they are in a Conference that they can't win.

New HC every year.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #256 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:20:44 AM »

Do boosters have any appreciable influence over how a coach coaches? I hope not, maybe they do at times.

"Coach, throw more to the tight end!"

"Good idea, thanks."

Mdot21 · « **Reply #257 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:21:27 AM »

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 15, 2021, 10:20:39 AM

You think it's bad now, just wait until they are in a Conference that they can't win.

New HC every year.

yeah- I have no clue why they decided to go the SEC. They'll literally never win it. Ever.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #258 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:26:46 AM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 15, 2021, 08:08:22 AM

look- you can fire guys- but you have to take a risk on a young guy or an up and comer. Sark DOES NOT fit that bill. At all. Sark was a failure- at two big-time P5 programs. WTF made Texas think he was going to magically turn it around just because he spent the night with Saban?

Too many times these schools fire coaches and then think they have HAVE to get a "big name" and then when the big name doesn't come they think they have to get a mediocre guy who has had head coach experience at a big program.

You're better off just not even going after the big name- and you're better off staying THE HELL AWAY from failures and retreads like Sark.

Look at the schools that always find great coaches- think Baylor- think MSU- they don't go after the flavor of the month or hot name- they just go out and find good coaches. There are PLENTY of them out there.

I mean, Texas took the up and comer in Herman, and before that grabbed a guy who won 71 percent of his games at a lesser school. I don't particularly like the retread mindset, but the process is always gonna get blasted when it goes sideways.

On those two hires you mentioned, Baylor got a guy who looked all sorts of out of his depth in Year 1, taking a 11-win team, 8-1 in conference, and going 2-7. MSU took an SEC DC who went 5-7 at Colorado, and then took a 7-6 team and went 2-5.

I don't think Sark will succeed, but both those schools went out, found good coaches, watched them struggle in Year 1 and then look good in Year 2. So it doesn't make much sense to shower them with praise less than a full season into actually having success. Plenty of coaches seem like they'll be good less than two seasons in.

utee94 · « **Reply #259 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:33:16 AM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 15, 2021, 10:18:02 AM

boosters do try to get way too involved- but the really good coaches usually have a way of shutting them down or handling them with ease.

They get involved at EVERY helmet school.

utee94 · « **Reply #260 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:37:43 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 15, 2021, 10:26:46 AM

I mean, Texas took the up and comer in Herman, and before that grabbed a guy who won 71 percent of his games at a lesser school. I don't particularly like the retread mindset, but the process is always gonna get blasted when it goes sideways.

On those two hires you mentioned, Baylor got a guy who looked all sorts of out of his depth in Year 1, taking a 11-win team, 8-1 in conference, and going 2-7. MSU took an SEC DC who went 5-7 at Colorado, and then took a 7-6 team and went 2-5.

I don't think Sark will succeed, but both those schools went out, found good coaches, watched them struggle in Year 1 and then look good in Year 2. So it doesn't make much sense to shower them with praise less than a full season into actually having success. Plenty of coaches seem like they'll be good less than two seasons in.

Yeah, Herman and Strong were both considered "up and comers" at the time. It's interesting seeing the script rewritten now.

Texas has typically avoided taking a coordinator and making him the head coach, although that clearly worked for Stoops at OU. Sark was sort of that, but he also had a fairly lengthy resume' as a head coach, with results ranging from mediocre, to disastrous. This was NOT the risk to take, and I was not buying it, from day 1. Still, as a Texas fan, I have no choice but to root for his success. What else am I going to do?

MrNubbz · « **Reply #261 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:39:15 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 15, 2021, 10:26:46 AM

MSU took an SEC DC who went 5-7 at Colorado, and then took a 7-6 team and went 2-5.

Mel has been all over the place but started at MSU under Saban with a couple of stops in the BIG/SEC/NFL each and the Buffs off the top of my head.I thought Herman had the right trajectory he had won the Broyles award for MVP among CFB assistants and had a good stay at Houston.I really don't think tOSU wins the 2014 NC with out his work with the QBs.I don't think he's done he can bounce back.I didn't see that with Sark,but they will prolly give him one more season

utee94 · « **Reply #262 on:** November 15, 2021, 10:45:02 AM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 15, 2021, 10:20:44 AM

Do boosters have any appreciable influence over how a coach coaches? I hope not, maybe they do at times.

"Coach, throw more to the tight end!"

"Good idea, thanks."

The only real influence they have, is during the selection of coaches. They can influence the AD/president by either providing cash for the buyout of the current guy, or providing cash to land the new guy, and his assistants.

For the Sark hire, the boosters were only involved in the former. They wanted Herman gone, and provided the cash for the buyout. The school president, and the athletic director, were solely responsible for choosing Sark. Like I said at the time, the AD, Chris del Conte, staked his career on this choice. If Sark fails, the AD will go down with him.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #263 on:** November 15, 2021, 01:53:32 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 15, 2021, 10:39:15 AM

Mel has been all over the place but started at MSU under Saban with a couple of stops in the BIG/SEC/NFL each and the Buffs off the top of my head.

That's true. His resume is interesting.

Saban GA to position coach, with a MAC stop between
Tress position coach with one year as No. 2 DC
Stretch as a NFL postiton coach to seven years as a DC, which for the most part were a failure
One year as a Saban position coach, to three years as a Kirby DC (so basically a guy working under a similar guy)
Then Colorado

So if it goes wrong, he's an NFL washout who got some Saban tree dust sprinkled on him. But, at the moment, it sounds like he's a good coach. That resume doesn't tell you a ton. Certianly doesn't paint an up and comer. In five years, we'll know if he's it or not.

Let's face it, Will Muschamp was 33-19 in Years 1 and 2, 20-6 in Year 2s. IN Year 2, Harbs had the Wolverines looking ready to go. Dan Mullen was 21-5 with someone else's guys. Long way between Year 2 and long-term contentment.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #264 on:** November 15, 2021, 01:58:50 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on November 15, 2021, 10:45:02 AM

The only real influence they have, is during the selection of coaches. They can influence the AD/president by either providing cash for the buyout of the current guy, or providing cash to land the new guy, and his assistants.

For the Sark hire, the boosters were only involved in the former. They wanted Herman gone, and provided the cash for the buyout. The school president, and the athletic director, were solely responsible for choosing Sark. Like I said at the time, the AD, Chris del Conte, staked his career on this choice. If Sark fails, the AD will go down with him.

They can also threaten to withhold tons of money if they don't get their guy. I know at least two SEC spots where the money tried to have or did have a big say on the pick.

I guess Texas wasn't this because the money wanted Urban (it sounded like), and once he was out, no one wanted to own a search with the set of names out there.

utee94 · « **Reply #265 on:** November 15, 2021, 02:17:24 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 15, 2021, 01:58:50 PM

They can also threaten to withhold tons of money if they don't get their guy. I know at least two SEC spots where the money tried to have or did have a big say on the pick.

Sure, that's part of the "influence" I'm talking about. They can try to have a say in who is hired. In the past, perhaps they have. But Charlie Strong most certainly wasn't the choice of "the money" and really neither was Tom Herman.

Quote

I guess Texas wasn't this because the money wanted Urban (it sounded like), and once he was out, no one wanted to own a search with the set of names out there.

Urban was certainly first choice, and that was coming from across the board. Boosters, administration, were all aligned. For obvious reasons, that would have been considered a slam dunk. When he said "no thanks" then it was left in the hands of the school's administration and AD. They're the ones that, for whatever reason, wanted Sarkisian. They're the ones that will go down with the ship, too.

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Topic: David (Bell) Against The Goliath (SOC 11/13/21)

utee94

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Mdot21

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FearlessF

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Brutus Buckeye

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Cincydawg

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Mdot21

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bayareabadger

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utee94

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utee94

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MrNubbz

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utee94

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bayareabadger

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bayareabadger

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utee94

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