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Topic: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model

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ELA

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2022, 03:31:52 PM »
Haha, yes, but that's also Purdue's football program in the East, after never winning the West, even with Indiana has a locked in crossover

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2022, 05:36:19 PM »
If you look at 88-93, The Big Ten was 3-3. So really even worse at 3-17 for 20 years.

I blame Bo.
If you really want to cherry-pick you can make it even worse than that.  Between Ohio State's win over USC in the 1969 Rose Bowl (1968 season) and Michigan State's win over USC in the 1988 Rose Bowl (1987 season) our league was an abysmal 2-16 in 18 years.  In those 18 years:
  • 1-6 Ohio State (1-4 Woody and 0-2 Earle Bruce)
  • 1-7 Michigan (all Bo)
  • 0-1 Illinois (Mike White)
  • 0-2 Iowa (Hayden Fry)

I'm happy to blame Bo but in reality it wasn't just Bo/Michigan.  In that era Woody was only marginally better and while Earle Bruce, Mike White, and Hayden Fry didn't lose as many Rose Bowls as Bo, they didn't win any either. 
You'd rather play Rutgers every year than the Wolverines?
No, I'd rather that Michigan be the "some other team that is typically a bottom-feeder".  

Hawkinole

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2022, 05:42:46 PM »
MSU and Iowa:
You really need answers more from Spartan/Hawkeye fans but I've always thought of them as at least having some history largely because back in the "Big2/Little8" era they were generally either the best or among the best after the "Big2" of tOSU/M.  For example, Indiana (yes, the Hoosiers) went to the 1968 Rose Bowl (1967 season).  Then from 1969 through 1981 (1968 through 1980 seasons) the BigTen was represented in the RB every single year by either tOSU or M.  Iowa broke that with an appearance in the 1982 Rose Bowl (1981 season) and Michigan State was not long after with an appearance in the 1988 Rose Bowl (1987 season).  Also note that between Purdue's win in the 1967 Rose Bowl (1966 season) and Wisconsin's win in the 1994 Rose Bowl (1993 season) only three of our teams won Rose Bowls:
  • Ohio State in 1969 and 1974
  • Michigan in 1981, 1989, and 1993
  • Michigan State in 1988

Part of that, of course, is the BigTen's colossally bad RB record of 6-20 in those 26 years.
For me MSU is just another Big Ten game, but you make valid points, and the all-time series is close with Iowa leading it currently, Iowa 24 - MSU 22.
Historically there have been a few blowouts, but most games are competitive, and even for the games that were not competitive usually they were expected to be competitive coming into the game, but one team gets momentum and doesn't let up.
Keeping divisions and moving MSU or Michigan to the west are possible solutions. Michigan can rarely defeat Ohio State these days either, so actually whether we have divisions, or not, the Little 13 has to get its $hit together.
That said, the NCAA votes this week on whether to allow conference championship games for conferences with no divisions.  I suspect this vote is prompted by how poorly the West performed in the Big Ten CCG. Divisionless Big Ten football will arrive in 2023.

Here is the all-time MSU-Iowa series records:

     (HOME) 2020/11/07  Iowa             49 - Michigan State    7    W                           
     (AWAY) 2017/09/30  Iowa             10 - Michigan State   17   L                          
     (N)    2015/12/05  Iowa             13 - Michigan State   16   L ** BIG TEN CHAMPIONSHIP **
     (HOME) 2013/10/05  Iowa             14 - Michigan State   26   L                          
     (AWAY) 2012/10/13  Iowa             19 - Michigan State   16 OT W                          
     (HOME) 2011/11/12  Iowa             21 - Michigan State   37   L                          
     (HOME) 2010/10/30  Iowa             37 - Michigan State    6   W                          
     (AWAY) 2009/10/24  Iowa             15 - Michigan State   13   W                          
     (AWAY) 2008/10/04  Iowa             13 - Michigan State   16   L                          
     (HOME) 2007/10/27  Iowa             34 - Michigan State   27 OT W                          
     (HOME) 2004/10/02  Iowa             38 - Michigan State   16   W                          
     (AWAY) 2003/09/27  Iowa             10 - Michigan State   20   L                          
     (HOME) 2002/10/12  Iowa             44 - Michigan State   16   W                          
     (AWAY) 2001/10/13  Iowa             28 - Michigan State   31   L                          
     (HOME) 2000/10/07  Iowa             21 - Michigan State   16   W                          
     (AWAY) 1999/10/02  Iowa              3 - Michigan State   49   L                          
     (HOME) 1996/10/05  Iowa             37 - Michigan State   30   W                          
     (AWAY) 1995/10/07  Iowa             21 - Michigan State    7   W                          
     (HOME) 1994/10/22  Iowa             19 - Michigan State   14   W                          
     (AWAY) 1993/10/23  Iowa             10 - Michigan State   24   L                          
     (AWAY) 1990/10/06  Iowa             12 - Michigan State    7   W                          
     (HOME) 1989/10/07  Iowa             14 - Michigan State   17   L                          
     (AWAY) 1988/10/01  Iowa             10 - Michigan State   10   T                          
     (HOME) 1987/10/03  Iowa             14 - Michigan State   19   L                          
     (AWAY) 1986/10/04  Iowa             24 - Michigan State   21   W                          
     (HOME) 1985/10/05  Iowa             35 - Michigan State   31   W                          
     (HOME) 1984/11/10  Iowa             16 - Michigan State   17   L                          
     (AWAY) 1983/11/12  Iowa             12 - Michigan State    6   W                          
     (AWAY) 1982/11/20  Iowa             24 - Michigan State   18   W                          
     (HOME) 1981/11/21  Iowa             36 - Michigan State    7   W                          
     (AWAY) 1980/11/22  Iowa             41 - Michigan State    0   W                          
     (HOME) 1979/11/17  Iowa             33 - Michigan State   23   W                          
     (AWAY) 1978/11/25  Iowa              7 - Michigan State   42   L                          
     (HOME) 1977/11/19  Iowa             16 - Michigan State   22   L                          
     (AWAY) 1976/11/20  Iowa             30 - Michigan State   17   W                          
     (HOME) 1975/11/22  Iowa             23 - Michigan State   27   L                          
     (AWAY) 1974/11/23  Iowa             21 - Michigan State   60   L                          
     (HOME) 1973/11/24  Iowa              6 - Michigan State   15   L                          
     (HOME) 1972/10/28  Iowa              6 - Michigan State    6   T                          
     (AWAY) 1971/10/23  Iowa              3 - Michigan State   34   L                          
     (AWAY) 1970/10/24  Iowa              0 - Michigan State   37   L                          
     (HOME) 1969/10/25  Iowa             19 - Michigan State   18   W                          
     (AWAY) 1966/11/05  Iowa              7 - Michigan State   56   L                          
     (HOME) 1965/11/06  Iowa              0 - Michigan State   35   L                          
     (AWAY) 1960/10/08  Iowa             27 - Michigan State   15   W                          
     (HOME) 1959/10/10  Iowa             37 - Michigan State    8   W                          
     (HOME) 1954/09/25  Iowa             14 - Michigan State   10   W                          
     (HOME) 1953/09/26  Iowa              7 - Michigan State   21   L    






medinabuckeye1

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2022, 05:57:24 PM »
Thanks @Hawkinole for answering from and Iowa fan perspective.  

As an Ohio State fan I've viewed Iowa and MSU as in the next group behind tOSU/M since before PSU was even in the league and obviously before Wisconsin's rise.  

FearlessF

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2022, 07:17:52 PM »
5+5-3 is better

I'd rather just have 11 and toss 3 to the curb
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2022, 09:43:11 PM »
I'm not understanding wanting to be the program playing the 3 other toughest opponents every season.  It's going to cost you.  And with your rivals having other, easier teams to play every year, you're literally just purposely lowering your shot at a conference championship each season.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ELA

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2022, 09:51:29 AM »
Yeah, MSU and Iowa have maybe been historically the next in line, but maybe it's been because their peaks haven't really aligned, but they haven't had a ton of meaningful games over the decades. They met once in the CCG, but aside from that? Even in 1990, when they were co-champs, they played in the first conference game, on October 6, when MSU was 1-2-1 and Iowa was unranked

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2022, 08:36:04 PM »
I'm not understanding wanting to be the program playing the 3 other toughest opponents every season.  It's going to cost you.  And with your rivals having other, easier teams to play every year, you're literally just purposely lowering your shot at a conference championship each season.
Because those are the games that you circle on your calendar every year, not the 59-17 beat downs of Rutgers, Indiana, etc. 

Because you need to be battle tested in order to get anywhere in the playoffs, not fattened up on cupcakes. 

Because there's a LOT more to CFB than just the GD playoffs.

Because you have no business being in the playoffs if you can't beat the top teams in your league. 

Because you have no business winning a conference title if you had to duck the top teams in your league in order to do it. 

Because why the Hell would anyone even buy season tickets if it's Rutgers and Indiana type teams every week. 

And yes, I am also glad that OSU is opening with Notre Dame this year, instead of an FCS team that they could beat by 100. And I'm also glad they opened with Oregon last year, even though it was a loss. 

Big games are what make CFB fun. Blowing out cupcakes can also be fun in moderation, but if it's just going to be that all the time then the regular season will be completely meaningless. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2022, 08:47:23 PM »
Uhh....nice speech, but you're missing that you'd be playing that additional tough team every other season anyway, lol.  

Your piss and vinegar clouds your mind.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2022, 08:56:34 PM »
You are looking at it through SEC goggles. No matter who you duck, you still play a bunch of strong teams that prepare you for the playoffs. You aren't just taking a cakewalk through a park, trying not to trip over any of the road apples. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

ELA

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2022, 03:49:13 PM »
Pac 12 officially scrapping divisions

847badgerfan

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2022, 03:56:28 PM »
Pac 12 officially scrapping divisions
I think they B1G is too. They pulled off all the future schedules from the website.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2022, 07:02:49 PM »
You are looking at it through SEC goggles. No matter who you duck, you still play a bunch of strong teams that prepare you for the playoffs. You aren't just taking a cakewalk through a park, trying not to trip over any of the road apples.
It's not about ducking, it's about some semblance of equity.  No one said anything about a cakewalk.  How can you be so radically wrong about so many different things?!?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Conferences with the 3+5+5 scheduling model
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2022, 07:03:27 PM »
Pac 12 officially scrapping divisions
Well, well, perhaps this is going to be a thing after all.
I was assured it wouldn't be......but that poster is nearly wrong about everything.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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