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Topic: College Basketball Scandal

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ELA

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College Basketball Scandal
« on: February 23, 2018, 12:31:24 PM »
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So the question is not are agents giving kids money, but are agents directing kids to certain schools...   what relationships do they have?   I think that is where a school could get in trouble.  
Well that's where schools themselves could be in trouble.
Here, really the only issue is the impact on schools of the kids being punished.  I don't know what will come of the big payment schools (Washington, Maryland, NC State, Utah) because all those kids are gone.  I don't see the NCAA vacating any wins unless there's some proof out there the school knew, and obviously they can't punish the players who took the money at this point.  So really, I think all that comes out of this story is what punishment, if any, for Bridges, Wendell Carter, Kevin Knox, Collin Sexton, right now.
The Carter, Knox and Sexton ones are particularly tough to pin any sort of penalty to, because I think all they can prove is that they met with the guy.  Then Bridges you have a smallish sum of money ($400), paid to the mother.  I did see someone find a sort of on point case where an agent paid a Miami player $400 to sign autographs, and the kid was suspended 1 game, and had to pay the money back.  That was football, so 1 game was about the equivalent of 2.5 games in basketball.  That case the money was paid directly to the kid too.  I almost wonder if MSU comes out with a statement, and suspends him 2 or 3 games for the actions of his mom, and the NCAA leaves it at that.
The complicating factor is that it wasn't like Yahoo got everything the FBI had on this guy.  I think they got like one balance sheet from this one specific runner.  This runner is the son of a long time Michigan high school coach, which is why so many of the names that came up today (Bridges (MSU), Jackson (Kansas), Kuzma (Utah), Sumner (Xavier), Bowen (Louisville/South Carolina), and Davis (Texas)) were Michigan high school players.  My guess is those were the contacts this specific runner was working.
This guy's brother actually died at an MSU basketball camp like a decade ago due to an undiagnosed heart condition.

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 12:42:49 PM »
Also worth noting that those 6 players with State of Michigan connections went to 6 different schools.  In fact I think USC, South Carolina and Kentucky were the only schools with more than 1 kid names, and none had more that 2 if I'm not mistaken.

I think that's why you won't see punishments against the schools, it's pretty clear that this guy was simply working to get players to sign with his agency, it had nothing to do with funneling kids towards schools.  Kids may have jeopardized their amateur status, and made themselves ineligible, but if these guys were tied to schools, they did a pretty lousy job of it.

HailHailMSP

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2018, 12:44:56 PM »
I will be curious for those with parents involved (Bridges) how effective the Cam Newton defense will be. He was given the thumbs up by the NCAA, because it was his Dad. The precedent was established with Cam, but then again the NCAA isn't know for great consistency.

While the report released through Yahoo have more substance and info to date than anything we have seen I sense this is also the tip of the iceberg. For a number of these athletes they never landed with the agent involved. Makes one curious what they and others were getting from other agents and runners not involved in this. I think the high $ athletes implicated here give us a sense of what kind of $ is flowing.

My mind is blown that Bill Self is nowhere to be found in any of this.

At what point does the NCAA just call it with USC. The Reggie Bush stuff, OJ Mayo, a number of other issues, and then they have their hands really dirty in this mess. The saddest part is it hasn't amounted to any success on the basketball court.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 12:59:33 PM by HailHailMSP »

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2018, 12:57:07 PM »
My mind is blown that Bill Self is nowhere to be found in any of this.

He is, Josh Jackson.  I mean he is as much as really no coach is, beyond was a player on their roster, or their parent, mentioned.  This is all players/agents.  I think most news outlets realize nothing is going to come of this other than player suspensions, and so really the only story in how it will impact teams is the Miles Bridges/Wendell Carter/Kevin Knox/Collin Sexton portion, those being the current big name players included.

bwarbiany

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2018, 01:37:06 PM »
For Purdue, I am a bit worried that AJ Hammons was listed as one of Miller's clients. So far in the few links I've seen, his name hasn't come up with any dirt associated with him EXCEPT being a client of Miller, but who knows?

The one area that I think Purdue is somewhat immune here, thankfully, is Caleb Swanigan. Since his adoptive father and guardian is an agent, I think it would have been clear to all the other sharks in the water that trying to throw money at Biggie to sign with them would have been a fool's errand. He and Barnes already went through all the investigation by the NCAA clearinghouse to show that him attending Purdue was clean, and given that every agent in the world knew Biggie was going to be advised by Barnes after the fact, should ensure they were clean on the back end too.

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2018, 01:48:39 PM »
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing regarding Swanigan.

As far as Hammons goes.  Who cares?  He's gone.  So far I haven't read anything that makes me think anything is coming back on the schools.  So if the only players you are worried about are gone, I can't imagine it mattering.

rolltidefan

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 02:02:27 PM »
sexton already served a 1 game suspension from ncaa for the impermissible benefits of a meal. he had to "pay restitution" for the meal.

seems to stem from this rule:
NCAA Bylaw 16.01.1.1 reads "Unless otherwise noted, for violations of Bylaw 16 in which the value is $200 or less, the eligibility of the student-athlete shall not be affected conditioned upon the student-athlete's repayment of the benefit to a charity of his or her choice. The student-athlete however, shall remain ineligible from the time the institution has knowledge of receipt of the impermissible benefit until the student-athlete repays the benefit..."

unless there is more coming out, i'm confident this is already over for sexton, and likely most other players in similar situation. i didn't see anything in this new article that suggested there was more, either.

grillrat

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 02:18:56 PM »
The Cam Newton defense won't work anymore.  The NCAA closed that loop hole last year.

mcwterps1

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2018, 02:21:51 PM »
"Late last night we were alerted of a report associating one of our former student-athletes with an agent. We are extremely disappointed, and we will fully cooperate with any investigation. I do not have a relationship with Andy Miller or anyone from his agency, and at no time have I ever had a conversation with Andy Miller or his agency regarding any Maryland basketball player. We remain steadfast in upholding a program of integrity that reflects the values of our University community," Turgeon said.

rolltidefan

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2018, 02:25:42 PM »
The Cam Newton defense won't work anymore.  The NCAA closed that loop hole last year.
there never was a loophole, ncaa just turned blind eye and added unnecessary clause in bylaws. it was always anyone close to the recruit, and if coaches, family friends, and handlers could influence and count against a kid, with or without the kids knowledge, then his mom and dad damn sure could. ncaa just folded under pressure, and i don't blame au 1 bit for forcing that issue either.

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 02:26:09 PM »
Per B. David Ridpath, Sports Admin Prof, and NCAA reules expert

Based on the Yahoo report, the total of $470 isn’t nearly as big as some of the other players and payments listed in the report, but it is something the NCAA would have to adjudicate. Typically, Ridpath said, anything over $100 would trigger a payback and a game suspension for every $100 dollars over the first $100.

“There are a whole lot of moving parts here, but just looking at what has happened in the past, he would be have to pay back $370, which could be stretched out over the rest of his eligibility,” Ridpath said. “That money would go to the charity of the school’s choice which is approved by the NCAA. And then typically he’s looking at likely a three-game suspension.

“So, not hugely horrible by any stretch, but when you’re getting into the Dennis Smith level of $73,000, now we’re talking about a whole different ballgame.”

Smith, who played at North Carolina State, is one of six players listed in the report that received more than $10,000. His amount totaled more than $73,000, according to the report.

The amount attributed to Bridges’ parents is nowhere near that high and Ridpath believes Michigan State could put itself in a better position with the NCAA if it acted now

“If I was sitting there with Tom Izzo and everybody there in East Lansing, I would probably say, ‘Look, we have a few games coming up in the Big Ten tournament. I say we sit him now for three games. It shows that we’re being proactive,’” Ridpath said. “They could, on their own, even set up a repayment plan to show, again, the NCAA sometimes, at least, will look at that as a positive thing, that you’re taking proactive stances.”

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2018, 02:59:03 PM »
Izzos statement says they've reached out to the Big Ten and the NCAA but they are confident that he, his staff and his players did nothing against NCAA rules.

So sounds like they are refuting nothing.  Saying this was a $400 handshake between a player's mother and a former local AAU coach turned agent that they had no awareness of.

Not sure if that matters at all.

bwarbiany

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2018, 03:05:00 PM »
As far as Hammons goes.  Who cares?  He's gone.  So far I haven't read anything that makes me think anything is coming back on the schools.  So if the only players you are worried about are gone, I can't imagine it mattering.
Agreed. And honestly I would say that for most of the players implicated in the agent issues, it actually doesn't implicate the coaches or the program, unless the issues are so conspicuous and pervasive that you can point out the LOIC, as the NCAA did with the Reggie Bush stuff. 
But one of the things I think about Purdue is that there is an emphasis on running a clean program. I want to maintain that perception for a number of reasons:
  • It looks bad on any university when there is any level of improper benefits going on with its players. I don't want that on my university.
  • I'd like the university to be able to attract recruits who are above this behavior, and to expect them to live up to these principles even if they think they won't get caught. AJ Hammons had a wonderful career at Purdue. I don't want to see his name sullied, even if it was by his own actions.

I don't think the Hammons thing would have any tangible impact on Purdue such as vacated wins, etc. But it may have intangible effects such as allowing more players or fans to think that this sort of stuff is an acceptable "cost of doing business", especially if there are no tangible effects on the school. I don't want my school to lower itself into the muck just because the that's where all the other pigs are wrestling.

ELA

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Re: College Basketball Scandal
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2018, 04:25:58 PM »
Duke releases a statement saying they've reviewed Wendell Carter, found nothing wrong, and won't be sitting him.

Josh Jackson's mother said that while she's met Christian Dawkins (anyone who played high level HS basketball in Michigan has), she's never received anything from him.  The report accused her of receiving $1,700.

 

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