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Topic: Coaching changes

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FearlessF

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #168 on: November 02, 2021, 10:48:06 PM »
or, you can buy talent like Cam Newton or Reggie Bush 

and then get caught
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #169 on: November 02, 2021, 10:52:10 PM »
Quote from: Gigem on November 02, 2021, 09:46:22 PM
When Jimbo took over for Bowden FSU was in the dumps. He took them to a very high level, obviously winning the BCS championship. He brought them back into big time football. I don’t know what happened in 2017 except they started the season very highly ranked and lost their highly rated QB in the first matchup with Bama. After that it seemed like the team just kinda fell apart.

But to say that Jimbo is responsible for the downfall of FSU is utter bs. That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of Taggert and the other coaches who followed. I get having a recruiting drop off but it was reported in the media that one of the reasons why Fisher left is he felt he wasn’t being supported by the AD in the facilities race. He was constantly pushing for better facilities, and going to war with the university over them.
This seems generous. Like, I get that stuff is always overhyped, but still. 

Like, a team that he inherited "in the dumps" was 7-6, with a first-round QB. The team he left was 5-6, and had to buy a rescheduled win to make the independence bowl. There are many reasons for the problems, but he left a program in sorry shape, even if he inherited it in less sorry shape. 
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Gigem

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #170 on: November 02, 2021, 11:13:49 PM »
Under Bowden FSU won double digit games every single year from 1987-2000. 

Every single year for 13 years. Two Natl Championships. 

After 2000 there is a visible dip. Not much, but now they start having 9 win seasons, then 8 win seasons, then 7 win seasons mixed in with 10 win seasons. Maybe the competition just got better?  I know the ACC expanded during that time but I don’t recall anybody else really stepping up. 

Jimbo steps in and boom-first ten win season in 6 years. Then 9 wins, then 12, 14, 10, 10 wins. 6 out of seven years they won 10 or more and one BCS championship. I’m betting the recruiting during that time was good, if not great. 

I don’t know what happened during 2017. They were playing Bama competitively during the first half until their star QB goes down. They lost 24-7. Not horrible, but not great. 4 of their losses were single digits, and they beat Florida at the swamp. 

I always felt that it was a bunch of factors that led to the results that year. Injuries, marital problems, maybe burnout, and infighting with the school/boosters. Not to mention I’m fairly certain he knew he was leaving FSU the first week after the A&M UCLA game. No doubt he had been getting interest early in the season. It was just a matter of time.  We made him an offer he couldn’t refuse and gave him the facilities he had been asking for. 
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FearlessF

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #171 on: November 03, 2021, 10:53:21 AM »
this dude put together a list of 10 possible coaches to replace Frost.

Not sure this guy knows any more than the folks here, but he seems to have done some research

Jeff Monken
Hugh Freeze
Jamey Chadwell
Gus Malzahn
Dave Clawson
Mike Leach
Matt Campbell
Dave Aranda
Bob Stoops - my personal favorite, but the longest shot
Bill O'Brien






https://youtu.be/FlscJqJuftY
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #172 on: November 03, 2021, 11:02:12 AM »
What about NDSU guy? 
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MikeDeTiger

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #173 on: November 03, 2021, 11:03:15 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 02, 2021, 10:08:43 PM
LOL
Florida's recruiting classes:
2007:  1st nationally
2008:  5th
2009:  7th
2010:  1st
Urban leaves.  Florida hiring a DC as a HC tanked the Gators.

Here's to my point about stars and recruiting.  Yes, the HC took a drop after Urban--most people would be downgrades--but he whiffed on a LOT of evals for the players he left you with.  Florida was a roster of highly rated guys who turned out not to be worth their regard.  Quite a few of those were not "Florida" quality players that Muschamp inherited.  It was obvious when watching them.  It was obvious in Urban's last year when UF sucked that he had missed on a lot of evals, and people who tell me that's not a major reason he left has a uphill road to climb with me.

I may not be a Florida fan, but for obvious reasons I watch them pretty closely. The players of 2010 who replaced the fantastic 2008 and 2009 teams were clearly, markedly below par with those teams.  They built back up talent pretty quickly, but it wasn't the kids Urbz left them with.  There's a reason the 2010 Gators were hapless, and it wasn't because Urban suddenly forgot how to coach.

EDIT:  Or maybe it was built back up with kids from the final class or two Urban recruited.  But somewhere in that string of classes were too many whiffs though.  That 2010 roster just didn't have it, and it wasn't in the same way 2007 stepped back between 2006 and 2008.  Some of the kids left from 2009 could play, like the Pouncey twin at center and some others.  I'm looking at the young roster from that team right now, and there's Dominique Easley, Shariff Floyd, and Jalani Jenkins.....and a bunch of guys who wouldn't see the field much on Urban's great Florida teams.  

Or maybe I'm completely wrong.  It's hard to think let alone post coherently when working.  
« Last Edit: November 03, 2021, 12:02:23 PM by MikeDeTiger »
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MikeDeTiger

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #174 on: November 03, 2021, 11:13:26 AM »
Quote from: Gigem on November 02, 2021, 11:13:49 PM
Under Bowden FSU won double digit games every single year from 1987-2000.

Every single year for 13 years. Two Natl Championships.

After 2000 there is a visible dip. Not much, but now they start having 9 win seasons, then 8 win seasons, then 7 win seasons mixed in with 10 win seasons. Maybe the competition just got better?  I know the ACC expanded during that time but I don’t recall anybody else really stepping up.

Jimbo steps in and boom-first ten win season in 6 years. Then 9 wins, then 12, 14, 10, 10 wins. 6 out of seven years they won 10 or more and one BCS championship. I’m betting the recruiting during that time was good, if not great.

I don’t know what happened during 2017. They were playing Bama competitively during the first half until their star QB goes down. They lost 24-7. Not horrible, but not great. 4 of their losses were single digits, and they beat Florida at the swamp.

I always felt that it was a bunch of factors that led to the results that year. Injuries, marital problems, maybe burnout, and infighting with the school/boosters. Not to mention I’m fairly certain he knew he was leaving FSU the first week after the A&M UCLA game. No doubt he had been getting interest early in the season. It was just a matter of time.  We made him an offer he couldn’t refuse and gave him the facilities he had been asking for.

I mean...whatever you say.  Looks to me like Jameis Winston covered up some other problems on that team that FSU never fully recovered from.  Bowden was slipping in his final year, obviously.  Jimbo provided a shot in the arm.  I don't think what he did there was sustainable, and I think FSU's trajectory bears that out.  

Same thing happened with Colt at UT.  It was "surprising" when UT fell off the map in 2010, but in truth for anybody closely watching, the rot started while McCoy was still there, he and a couple other guys were just able to cover it up and polish the turd.  

Having a transcendent, generational player is not a formula for sustained success, imo.  The overall team talent has to be there, as does the coaching.  
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FearlessF

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #175 on: November 03, 2021, 11:21:00 AM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on November 03, 2021, 11:02:12 AM
What about NDSU guy?
let's wait and see if he can beat the SOUTH DAKOTA STATE

JACKRABBITS this weekend
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MikeDeTiger

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #176 on: November 03, 2021, 11:54:42 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on November 02, 2021, 07:52:04 PM
urban tanked Florida?

Let me rephrase that to something less hyperbolic.  He didn't leave them in near as good of shape as he presided over for a while.  His last UF team was not pretty.  Wasn't even the record, which was 4-4 in conference....it's how they looked on the field.  Then suddenly he had to spend more time with his family, for health reasons.  
....after which he took the Ohio State job in a year.  

It took a minute for Florida to have "Florida" guys on the field again.  

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FearlessF

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #177 on: November 03, 2021, 12:38:17 PM »
Georgia Southern has hired former USC coach Clay Helton as the Eagles new head coach, the school announced on Tuesday.

Helton, who was fired by the Trojans on Sept. 13, replaces Chad Lunsford, who was fired by the Eagles on Sept. 26, following a 1-3 start to the football season. Helton was 1-1 this season when USC fired him. He went 46-24 overall at USC, where he became permanent head coach in late 2015 after a six-year run as a Trojans assistant.

Helton, who had two years left on his USC contract and was owed more than $10 million at the time of his firing, according to sources, is expected to join the Eagles' program soon to begin recruiting and putting together his staff for the 2022 season.
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GopherRock

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #178 on: November 03, 2021, 01:44:51 PM »
PJ Fleck gets a seven year extension in Dinkytown. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #179 on: November 03, 2021, 02:08:42 PM »
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Gigem

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #180 on: November 03, 2021, 03:15:05 PM »
Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 03, 2021, 11:13:26 AM
I mean...whatever you say.  Looks to me like Jameis Winston covered up some other problems on that team that FSU never fully recovered from.  Bowden was slipping in his final year, obviously.  Jimbo provided a shot in the arm.  I don't think what he did there was sustainable, and I think FSU's trajectory bears that out. 

Same thing happened with Colt at UT.  It was "surprising" when UT fell off the map in 2010, but in truth for anybody closely watching, the rot started while McCoy was still there, he and a couple other guys were just able to cover it up and polish the turd. 

Having a transcendent, generational player is not a formula for sustained success, imo.  The overall team talent has to be there, as does the coaching. 
Sustainable?  He did it for 5 years in a row.  


But Hey we all have our opinions.  It just gives me a bad taste in my mouth to say that the old coach left the cupboard bare, new guy comes in and blames him, lack of player development, etc.  But you can't say that X and Y player did not pan out BECAUSE of the old coach.  Maybe things would have turned out differently.  There are many cases where players that don't do squat get a new coach, either by transferring or the school changes coaches an voila, they're all world suddenly.  
Every coach is responsible for the team they coach, starting with year 1.  Sure, they inherited a mess, but at some point they just gonna have to clean it up and roll on.  Stoops did it.  Urban did it (2x).  Some can't do it, like Tom Herman or Mike Sherman. 
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ELA

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #181 on: November 03, 2021, 03:59:59 PM »
Minnesota locks up PJ Fleck with a 7 year extension
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