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Topic: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game
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847badgerfan · « **Reply #98 on:** December 09, 2019, 02:48:24 PM »

I didn't like seeing Big Jim suck on Urban's wang. His rooting interest was clear.

Brutus Buckeye · « **Reply #99 on:** December 09, 2019, 02:57:47 PM »

Okay. Carry on.

NorthernOhioBuckeye · « **Reply #100 on:** December 09, 2019, 03:05:37 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 09, 2019, 02:48:24 PM

I didn't like seeing Big Jim suck on Urban's wang. His rooting interest was clear.

He may well have been rooting for the Buckeyes being as that is the best shot for the B1G to get into the playoffs. However, that had no bearing what so ever on the outcome of the game.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #101 on:** December 09, 2019, 03:15:10 PM »

And neither did the blown targeting call.

I think if Jim's party hadn't started, we'd have seen a review. That's why I kinda think the kid is going to sit for a half on the 28th.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #102 on:** December 09, 2019, 03:28:38 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 09, 2019, 10:23:37 AM

You forgot to mention "helmet-to-helmet" when you describe the hard hit.
#41 should sit out for a half (at least).

Badge, it bothers me that you tried to claim that he was going out of bounds. There are posters on here I would expect that from. You are not one of them, please don't become one. That makes a humongous difference and what you said was flat not true.

The set-up for the play:
It was a two score game with 0:05 remaining at the snap so there was no plausible way for Wisconsin to win. However, both teams had something that they at least realistically believed that they were playing for. For Ohio State, the #1 seed *COULD* have depended on stopping Wisconsin there and finishing 13-0 with every game decided by at least two scores. For Wisconsin, the Rose Bowl *COULD* have depended on getting that TD and finishing closer to tOSU than Penn State did.

As it turned out, neither of those things were riding on that play. Ohio State got the stop and didn't get the #1 seed anyway.  Wisconsin failed to score and got the Rose Bowl anyway. Neither team knew that at the time so they both could realistically have believed that something important would be decided by that play.

Now the play, as I see it:

Coan is in a shotgun standing at his own 14 when the ball is snapped with 0:05 to go.
Coan takes the snap and drops back to the 17. It appears to be a designed draw because he doesn't appear to even look for an open WR, he just takes off from the 17 at 0:04 to go.
Coan crosses the 15 just as the clock switches to 0:03 from 0:04 and at that point he is ahead of the five tOSU defenders that had been blitzing him. There is a partially blocked tOSU defender at the 12 yard right hash and nobody else until about the 5 yard line. Ie, Coan has a LOT of green grass ahead of him.
Just as the clock switches from 0:02 to 0:01 Coan crosses the 10 yard line just outside of the "10" numbering and he has beaten the defender that was partially blocked at the 12 when he crossed the 15 two seconds earlier. That defender is now chasing him to the corner but Coan can't make it without contact. In addition to that guy inside of him, there are four tOSU defenders reacting to his run and beginning to close in and Coan obviously can't make the Pylon without contact.
Coan continues running upfield and toward the sideline until he gets to the 6 yard line. Then, just as the clock switches to 0:00 Coan makes a hard cut inside. That was Coan's only choice if UW wanted to score because he didn't have time to get out of bounds and he didn't have the angle to beat the defense to the pylon. Instead he made a cut to head inside. It almost worked. If you pause the game right as the clock hits 0:00 Coan's left foot is on the 5 yard line and he is turning inside. There are four tOSU defenders between him and the goal line but all four are heading toward the sideline. Inside of them there is one potential UW blocker (#6) and there is a whole lot of green grass. If Coan had been able to cut inside a little harder he might have made it but he didn't.
But for Proctor, Coan might have scored. The other three tOSU defenders in position to impact the play at that point were between Coan and the goal but they were also inside so they couldn't hit him head on to stop his momentum. All they could have done would have been to try to push him out of bounds before he got there.
As Coan crosses the four yard line moving toward the three and moving directly upfield (he is no longer moving toward the sideline as his cut at the six changed that) he and Procter are about to collide. Proctor lowers a shoulder while Coan also leans into the hit and Proctor just obliterates him. The contact starts at the three yard line and Coan is stood up and stopped in his tracks. At the same time #39 for Ohio State hits both players and pushes everybody out of bounds at the three.

One reason that the sideline issue is so important to me is that I think it matters based on my reading of the rule as posted by @CWSooner . Part of the definition of Targeting is when a player "takes aim at an opponent for purposes of attaching with forcible contact that goes beyond making a legal tackle or a legal block or playing the ball." (Emphasis mine). If this had occurred as Coan was going out of bounds anyway then it would appear to meet the bolded part of that quote. It didn't. Coan was advancing the ball toward the goal line and Proctor stopped him. He had to hit him hard to stop his progress toward the goal line and he did.

At the moment of impact Proctor's right shoulder hits Coan's left shoulder. I see that as the initiation of contact and it isn't with the crown of Proctor's helmet or to the head or neck of Coan.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #103 on:** December 09, 2019, 03:43:09 PM »

It certainly looks like he was not trying to go out of bounds after looking at the slo-mo. The hit was helmet on helmet. I've seen guys get tossed for much less.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #104 on:** December 09, 2019, 03:47:10 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on December 09, 2019, 03:43:09 PM

It certainly looks like he was not trying to go out of bounds after looking at the slo-mo. The hit was helmet on helmet. I've seen guys get tossed for much less.

Me too. I think if that happens earlier we get an in game call and review.

Abba · « **Reply #105 on:** December 09, 2019, 03:49:51 PM »

He may sit the 1st half anyways. He is a backup safety that was used more in this game due to the matchup. Most games Fuller gets all of the snaps as the lone safety, but they were using 2 safeties for really the first time all year.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #106 on:** December 09, 2019, 04:02:57 PM »

One play that did not get a lot of attention and I think deserves it is Taylor's 45 yard run right after Ohio State's first TD.

The set-up:
Ohio State's first three drives had resulted in a loss on downs a punt, and the fumble. Meanwhile, Wisconsin two TD's and a punt on their first three drives making it a 14-0 game in favor of Wisconsin. Then Ohio State had a long (10 plays, 71 yards) drive for a TD to make it a one-score game at 14-7 shortly before halftime. Ohio State's kick after their TD resulted in a touchback so Wisconsin had the ball at their own 25 with just 0:42 left in the first half. Ohio State had two timeouts and Wisconsin had one so it really looked like the teams would head into the locker room at 14-7 Wisconsin.

On first and ten from their own 25, Wisconsin ran JT and it was a beautiful run. First he broke what should have been a sure tackle near the LOS, then at about the 35 yard line he was surrounded by three Ohio State defenders and managed to emerge from that, slip another arm-tackle at the 40, and get in the clear with a blocker and heading downfield. He was finally pushed out of bounds at the tOSU 30 with around 0:32 to go.

Why I think that was a very important play:
Most coaches with the ball at their own 25 in a close game near halftime are going to run out the clock. That is especially true for a running team (Wisconsin) and for an underdog holding a lead (Wisconsin again). If Taylor had been tackled near the LOS for a short gain setting up second and sevenish with the clock running that probably would have been the end of the half. Instead, his long run put the Badgers in business and they would up scoring to take a 21-7 lead into the break. Overall it didn't impact the outcome of the game but it might have impacted the Rose Bowl and the CFP #1 seed. If we just assume that the second half would have been the same either way, with no TD there the final would have been 34-14 and that just might have gotten PSU into the RoseBowl against Oregon and tOSU into the Peach Bowl against Oklahoma.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #107 on:** December 09, 2019, 04:11:01 PM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 09, 2019, 04:02:57 PM

One play that did not get a lot of attention and I think deserves it is Taylor's 45 yard run right after Ohio State's first TD.

The set-up:
Ohio State's first three drives had resulted in a loss on downs a punt, and the fumble. Meanwhile, Wisconsin two TD's and a punt on their first three drives making it a 14-0 game in favor of Wisconsin. Then Ohio State had a long (10 plays, 71 yards) drive for a TD to make it a one-score game at 14-7 shortly before halftime. Ohio State's kick after their TD resulted in a touchback so Wisconsin had the ball at their own 25 with just 0:42 left in the first half. Ohio State had two timeouts and Wisconsin had one so it really looked like the teams would head into the locker room at 14-7 Wisconsin.

On first and ten from their own 25, Wisconsin ran JT and it was a beautiful run. First he broke what should have been a sure tackle near the LOS, then at about the 35 yard line he was surrounded by three Ohio State defenders and managed to emerge from that, slip another arm-tackle at the 40, and get in the clear with a blocker and heading downfield. He was finally pushed out of bounds at the tOSU 30 with around 0:32 to go.

Why I think that was a very important play:
Most coaches with the ball at their own 25 in a close game near halftime are going to run out the clock. That is especially true for a running team (Wisconsin) and for an underdog holding a lead (Wisconsin again). If Taylor had been tackled near the LOS for a short gain setting up second and sevenish with the clock running that probably would have been the end of the half. Instead, his long run put the Badgers in business and they would up scoring to take a 21-7 lead into the break. Overall it didn't impact the outcome of the game but it might have impacted the Rose Bowl and the CFP #1 seed. If we just assume that the second half would have been the same either way, with no TD there the final would have been 34-14 and that just might have gotten PSU into the RoseBowl against Oregon and tOSU into the Peach Bowl against Oklahoma.

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 09, 2019, 04:02:57 PM

One play that did not get a lot of attention and I think deserves it is Taylor's 45 yard run right after Ohio State's first TD.

The set-up:
Ohio State's first three drives had resulted in a loss on downs a punt, and the fumble. Meanwhile, Wisconsin two TD's and a punt on their first three drives making it a 14-0 game in favor of Wisconsin. Then Ohio State had a long (10 plays, 71 yards) drive for a TD to make it a one-score game at 14-7 shortly before halftime. Ohio State's kick after their TD resulted in a touchback so Wisconsin had the ball at their own 25 with just 0:42 left in the first half. Ohio State had two timeouts and Wisconsin had one so it really looked like the teams would head into the locker room at 14-7 Wisconsin.

On first and ten from their own 25, Wisconsin ran JT and it was a beautiful run. First he broke what should have been a sure tackle near the LOS, then at about the 35 yard line he was surrounded by three Ohio State defenders and managed to emerge from that, slip another arm-tackle at the 40, and get in the clear with a blocker and heading downfield. He was finally pushed out of bounds at the tOSU 30 with around 0:32 to go.

Why I think that was a very important play:
Most coaches with the ball at their own 25 in a close game near halftime are going to run out the clock. That is especially true for a running team (Wisconsin) and for an underdog holding a lead (Wisconsin again). If Taylor had been tackled near the LOS for a short gain setting up second and sevenish with the clock running that probably would have been the end of the half. Instead, his long run put the Badgers in business and they would up scoring to take a 21-7 lead into the break. Overall it didn't impact the outcome of the game but it might have impacted the Rose Bowl and the CFP #1 seed. If we just assume that the second half would have been the same either way, with no TD there the final would have been 34-14 and that just might have gotten PSU into the RoseBowl against Oregon and tOSU into the Peach Bowl against Oklahoma.

Bingo. Brilliant run by Taylor, and that’s a perfect example of his value. Chryst didn’t want to gamble there, but knew that Taylor always is a threat to explode. By the way, watch the replay and see Taylor’s brilliant stiff arm on Werner.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #108 on:** December 09, 2019, 04:24:05 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on December 09, 2019, 04:11:01 PM

Bingo. Brilliant run by Taylor, and that’s a perfect example of his value. Chryst didn’t want to gamble there, but knew that Taylor always is a threat to explode. By the way, watch the replay and see Taylor’s brilliant stiff arm on Werner.

Yep, that is the tackle he broke at the 40. Even if JT had been tackled there, it still likely doesn't result in a TD. It would have been a first down, but with only 0:37 left my guess is that Chryst would have done the same thing on first and 10 from the 40 that he did on first and 10 from the 25: Run JT and hope for a big gain, if not go to the locker room.

The concern for Chryst, I think, is that Ohio State still had two timeouts. A first down pass is risky because if it is incomplete it doesn't take much time off the clock and Ohio State could have called time in the event of short runs on second and third down. I think you pretty much have to run on first down there because otherwise you might be forced to punt the ball.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #109 on:** December 09, 2019, 04:40:38 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on December 09, 2019, 01:17:36 PM

not supposed to hit the player's head with your shoulder pad either

It's getting to the point a defender will have to allow a ball carrier to go by then trip them up.So many of these plays are band-bang and unitentional collisions.You have to lower your head to make a tackle and your shoulders go with them,by the letter of the rule arm tackles are all that left.Mind you I'm not including intentional cheap shots but sheesh

MaximumSam · « **Reply #110 on:** December 09, 2019, 05:29:51 PM »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/college/2018/08/21/college-football-helmet-targeting-rule-explained

That contains the entire rule. If the play was targeting, either Coan was defenseless or Proctor hit him with the crown of his helmet. There is no penalty for hitting a runner in the head during a tackle.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #111 on:** December 09, 2019, 08:04:20 PM »

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Topic: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

847badgerfan

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

Brutus Buckeye

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

NorthernOhioBuckeye

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

847badgerfan

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

medinabuckeye1

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

847badgerfan

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

Honestbuckeye

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

Abba

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

medinabuckeye1

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

Honestbuckeye

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

medinabuckeye1

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

MrNubbz

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

MaximumSam

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game

847badgerfan

Re: #1 Ohio State 34 (10-0, 13-0) vs. #8 Wisconsin 21(7-3, 10-3) Post Game