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Topic: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...

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FearlessF

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #238 on: February 02, 2018, 02:52:38 PM »
so, could the starting QB get knocked out of the game?

Injuries?

otherwise only teams like the 94 Huskers with Berringer throwing a 19 yard TD pass in the first half vs the Canes and Frazier ripping a 25 yard option keeper on 3rd & 3 with 5 minutes left in a tied game would need 2 QBs
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rolltidefan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #239 on: February 02, 2018, 04:08:40 PM »
06 florida with leak and future heisman tebow getting lots of playing time.

bama in 99-01 had watts and zow split time. only 99 was a decent team, though.

99 mich i think brady shared time with another qb.

2012 ou, jones and bell.

spurrier has used multiple qb's several times. it's been done more than a couple times.

next year bama might have 2 qb's play significant minutes.

FearlessF

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"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #241 on: February 02, 2018, 07:52:26 PM »
I had totally forgotten about the Belldozer, lol.  

I have no qualms with making 2 QB cards for some teams, they only take a minute to make.  But the issue is that the QB card influences the completion % and how often you throw an INT.  The yards per completion are determined by the receiver cards.  

If a backup QB was mainly a ball-carrier, then he'll already have his own rushing cards (like Tebow '06 would).  I even think Cardale Jones has a rushing card for '14 OSU.  

Back to the 2 QBs thing....if that backup QB, in such limited pass attempts, has a much higher completion % than the starter, you're really going to want to use him more (too much).  Meh, I'm sure I'm overthinking it.  

Perusing the teams, I was thinking of setting the cutoff at 100 pass attempts to make a 2nd QB card.  But that leaves out Henson for Michigan.  I'm just not comfortable going below that, otherwise you'll be having some artificially inflated stats thanks to the small sample size.  

Fair?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #242 on: February 02, 2018, 08:04:23 PM »
Here, this might help:

From the '08 Gators (because I'm a tiny bit familiar with them, and their cards are hot off the presses), Tebow was the main QB and #1 rushing player.  So he has a QB card and many rushing cards - both "inside run" and "outside run".  

Percy Harvin had many rushing attempts and pass receptions - so he actually has every type of play card:
inside run
outside run
short pass
long pass



(CLICK TO ENLARGE)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:27:22 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #243 on: February 02, 2018, 08:07:07 PM »
If you took all of Tebow's rush cards and figured out their average, it matches his real-life yards per rush.  Same with Harvin.
So Tebow's QB card has his passing stats and game-relevant short and long pass completion numbers.  His rushing cards have his rushing stats on them.  Harvin's rushing cards have his rushing stats and his receiving cards have his receiving stats.

If you take all of Harvin's receiving cards and found their average, it would equal his real-life yards per catch.  
Because Harvin was one of UF's top 4 rushers and top 6 receivers, he has cards for both.  


Hopefully, that clears up some uncertainties.  
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:09:14 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #244 on: February 02, 2018, 08:11:44 PM »
Closer up:
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #245 on: February 02, 2018, 09:10:42 PM »
Oklahoma's Belldozer - YouTube
So for this guy, we've got 16 pass attempts, so no need to create a QB card for him.  He was basically a short-yardage FB for the Sooners in 2012.
As one of OU's top 4 ball-carriers, he'd have rushing cards for sure.  Doing the math, he had 16.3% of OU's carries (out of the top 4 rushers).  Round that to 15% and he'd have 3 rushing cards out of the 20 Oklahoma would have. 
3 out of 20 = 15%
So in cases like his and Tebow's in '06, they'd be accurately represented through rushing cards only.  
Tebow as a backup had 27.2% of UF's rushes (of the top 4 rushers), rounding to 25%.  So of UF's 20 rushing cards, Tebow would be on 5 of them.  His 33 pass attempts aren't really meaningful, statistically speaking.  But he's in the game as a rusher.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #246 on: February 02, 2018, 09:12:46 PM »
A 2 QB squad that makes sense for what you were probably suggesting would be 2000 UF.  

Jesse Palmer had 223 attempts.
Rex Grossman had 212.

It would make sense to create a QB card for both, and allow the person to decide who he wants and when.

Now as a rule of thumb, do you guys find 100 pass attempts a fair cutoff for making a 2nd QB card for a team?    
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #247 on: February 02, 2018, 09:48:24 PM »
for most but the rushing option offenses we've discussed
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #248 on: February 02, 2018, 10:10:14 PM »
for most but the rushing option offenses we've discussed
Hmm, ok.  So maybe then instead of a minimum number of attempts, how about a % of the stater's attempts.....like half or a third?  That makes sense.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #249 on: February 02, 2018, 10:13:29 PM »
there ya go

"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #250 on: February 02, 2018, 10:22:51 PM »
If we do that, looking at the teams I've already created.....
1985 OU would have both Holieway (starter) and Aikman....58 att vs 47 att
1989 Miami would have Erickson (starter) and Torretta (273-177)

That's it, if we set it at 1/3 of the starter's attempts.

2014 OSU - Jones has 29% of Barrett's attempts.
1994 Nebraska - Frazier has 29% of Berringer's attempts.

Maybe make it 25%?  I don't want to go overboard with this, but I don't want to be exclusionary, either.  The game would be more fun with more QB choices than with less.  

*I'm just glad rolltidefan brought it up*
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 10:25:52 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #251 on: February 02, 2018, 10:27:56 PM »
That 85 Sooners team and QB situation is really fun.  Out of say, 25 offensive plays per half, it might go 20 runs and 5 passes with Holiway in there.  With Aikman, I might pass 20 and run 5 times.  Or 15 and 10, something like that.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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