I was looking over teams to create for the board game, and expanding from the national champions to other great teams of the past. In doing so, I really noticed some seasons that may have been better than the championship seasons.
1995 Florida's offense was better than the 1996 national champs'
Any others that come to mind? For your school or any other?
That 1995 Gators team was the first time I'd followed a team as a kid who was just starting to watch college football and NFL. Save the Huskers buzzsaw they ran into in the Fiesta Bowl and the Sean Taylor/Kellen Winslow/Devin Hester Miami teams I don't think there's been anyone since that they couldn't beat.Any Arizona team rival the 12-1 squad that beat up Miami that one year? Was that with Trung Candidate at RB? Or an early 90s desert swarm team might've been better? Are they one and the same?
I like Auburn's 2004 team better than their 2010 & 2013 Championship runs.
As well as Oklahoma's 2008 better than their 2000 National Champion. IMO Bob Stoops best Sooner team was 2008.
. . . Oklahoma's 2008 better than their 2000 National Champion. IMO Bob Stoops best Sooner team was 2008.I think that's right.
I'll also do Michigan. The 1999 Orange Bowl team was their best team of my lifetime, they just rotated QBs to appease Henson and the fan base and dropped a couple in the middle of the season to a top 5 MSU team, and a top 25 Illinois team.That orange bowl was a great game. Bama lost on a missed xp.
That team, with Brady, I think could have played with FSU. Instead beat SEC Champ Alabama in the Orange. That was the best the Big Ten has ever been too, and that team didn't even win a Big Ten title, actually came in 3rd. They beat Wisconsin who otherwise won out, including the Rose. MSU finished 2nd, and beat a really good Florida team in the Citrus. I think seven conference teams finished ranked, and they rolled through their bowls
Any Arizona team rival the 12-1 squad that beat up Miami that one year? Was that with Trung Candidate at RB? Or an early 90s desert swarm team might've been better? Are they one and the same?Though I did watch the Holiday Bowl where Arizona beat Nebraska that year I was a good seven or eight more years away from moving to Arizona for college, and thus didn't pay attention to their sports. Arizona has not had a team nearly that good since.
Yeah, but man I loved that 2000 Oklahoma team. That might be my favorite national champion team ever. It's a shame that was in the old ABC regional split days. They had a couple 3:30 games that were preempted for the Big 10 game, namely the Nebraska win when they spotted then 14 points then scored like 31 unansweredI was a big fan of that Sooners team too. Since we fell into ABC's regional Big 12 coverage living in Missouri at the time, we were able to watch about 5 conference games featuring the Sooners. The Sooners just came out of nowhere that year thrashing Texas and beating #2 KState on the road before waking everybody up with that convincing 2nd half shutout Vs Nebraska. And I still see Torrance Marshall raiding the LOS Vs FSU in the Championship game.
I'll also do Michigan. The 1999 Orange Bowl team was their best team of my lifetime, they just rotated QBs to appease Henson and the fan base and dropped a couple in the middle of the season to a top 5 MSU team, and a top 25 Illinois team.1999 Final AP Football Poll
That team, with Brady, I think could have played with FSU. Instead beat SEC Champ Alabama in the Orange. That was the best the Big Ten has ever been too, and that team didn't even win a Big Ten title, actually came in 3rd. They beat Wisconsin who otherwise won out, including the Rose. MSU finished 2nd, and beat a really good Florida team in the Citrus. I think seven conference teams finished ranked, and they rolled through their bowls
| [th]Rank[/th] [th]Team (FPV)[/th] [th]Conf[/th] [th]W-L[/th] [th]Points[/th] [th]Last Week[/th] | ||||||
| 1 | < 1 | Florida State (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=139) (70) | ACC | 12-0 | 1750 | W 46-29 N #2 Virginia Tech (BCS NC/Sugar) |
| 2 | < 2 | Virginia Tech (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=128) | Big East | 11-1 | 1647 | L 46-29 N #1 Florida State (BCS/Sugar) |
| 3 | < 3 | Nebraska (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=15) | Big 12 | 12-1 | 1634 | |
| 4 | < 4 | Wisconsin (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=36) | Big Ten | 10-2 | 1519 | |
| 5 | < 8 | Michigan (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=48) | Big Ten | 10-2 | 1406 | |
| 6 | < 7 | Kansas State (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=141) | Big 12 | 11-1 | 1402 | |
| 7 | < 9 | Michigan State (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=113) | Big Ten | 10-2 | 1357 | |
| 8 | < 5 | Alabama (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=25) | SEC | 10-3 | 1236 | |
| 9 | < 6 | Tennessee (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=28) | SEC | 9-3 | 1168 | |
| 10 | < 11 | Marshall (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=152) | MAC | 13-0 | 1136 | W 21-3 N BYU (Motor City) |
| 11 | < 13 | Penn State (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=68) | Big Ten | 10-3 | 1038 | |
| 12 | < 10 | Florida (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=117) | SEC | 9-4 | 941 | |
| 13 | < 15 | Mississippi State (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=69) | SEC | 10-2 | 923 | |
| 14 | < 16 | Southern Miss (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=126) | C-USA | 9-3 | 788 | W 23-17 N Colorado State |
| 15 | < 23 | Miami (FL) (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=116) | Big East | 9-4 | 678 | |
| 16 | < 21 | Georgia (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=73) | SEC | 8-4 | 640 | |
| 17 | < 24 | Arkansas (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=32) | SEC | 8-4 | 575 | |
| 18 | < 12 | Minnesota (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=1) | Big Ten | 8-4 | 452 | |
| 19 | < NR | Oregon (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=54) | Pac-10 | 9-3 | 358 | |
| 20 | < 17 | Georgia Tech (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=63) | ACC | 8-4 | 345 | |
| 21 | < 14 | Texas (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=66) | Big 12 | 9-5 | 340 | |
| 22 | < NR | Mississippi (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=55) | SEC | 8-4 | 281 | |
| 23 | < 18 | Texas A&M (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=14) | Big 12 | 8-4 | 272 | |
| 24 | < NR | Illinois (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=74) | Big Ten | 8-4 | 201 | |
| 25 | < 19 | Purdue (http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1999&teamid=5) | Big Ten | 7-5 | 198 |
And the 2008 Longhorn team that beat those Sooners by double digits in the Cotton Bowl was better than the 2009 Longhorn team that played for the MNC.
As well as Oklahoma's 2008 better than their 2000 National Champion. IMO Bob Stoops best Sooner team was 2008.
If that 2011 oSu team isn't sexy enough, you could go '88. A 10-2 squad, with Barry Sanders' 2,600+ yard season.Yeah, after this group of non-champs I was thinking big-time individual player season types.
2011 LSUThree wins over teams that FINISHED top 5. Unbelievable season.
If they had beat bama the second game or played and beat ok st they would have gone down as one of the best teams ever. Beat p12 champ Oregon bigeast champ wvu and top 5 teams Bama and arky (end season rank) and (if they played and beat them) bigxii champ ok st.
It helped my team and as a homer I’m thankful for the choice but LSU (not ok st, diff argument) really got screwed out of a chance at history.
In addition to non-champ great squads, I'm looking for the Arizona or Mississippi State types that haven't sniffed a NC, but need representation (a la '99 Va Tech).there's your invitation.............
Three wins over teams that FINISHED top 5. Unbelievable season.With an extremely bad offense for a great team.
I just have a hard time putting a "never-was" team into something like this.There ya go, you got it! (sarcastic applause)
OK, so the 1962 team was very good. 1993 could probably play with anyone that year. 2006? 2011?
I was just looking at them - Major Harris is one of my first in-person memories. I went to the WV-Clemson Gator Bowl in 87 or 88. Harris is one of those great under-the-radar (in a historical sense) guys who were awesome.It was '89. Oddly enough, that was his last game here and one of his worst.
I just have a hard time putting a "never-was" team into something like this.What about the ron dayne years?
OK, so the 1962 team was very good. 1993 could probably play with anyone that year. 2006? 2011?
What about the ron dayne years?Those were good years but not great.
I would assume if you need a Virginia squad, you're going with 1990? Managed to get to #1 in late October, before GT took them down on a last second FG in early November. I know UVA finished with a thud that year (8-4 maybe) but that was a nice team (Herman Moore at WR, Shawn Moore QB) going to the Sugar Bowl. I think Tennessee beat them by a point.I admit I hadn't looked at UVA yet. For VT, I think '99 is the obvious one. For the Cavs, I was thinking 1990, or an Aaron Brooks/Thomas Jones year, or (if not the same) the team that gave FSU its first loss in the ACC.
It was '89. Oddly enough, that was his last game here and one of his worst.WV has 3 real choices - '88, '93, and '05. I always clown on the '93 team, because Florida pantsed them in the Sugar Bowl that year - they were 11-0 and had no business being on the same field as the Gators. I remember them putting in Darren Studstill and it's as if he was throwing the game the way he played. It was comical.
1994 undefeated Penn StateThat is s a good one.. 95 OSU was very good too
That's the great part of this game idea - with NCAA licensing, over time, every team could be made, even the bad ones. But you could play 1998 Kansas State vs 1983 Auburn or something. Or match Bo Jackson up against 1992 Alabama's defense. Test Barry Sanders' 1988 Okie State against a few different versions of the blackshirts, see which one contains him best.I also like the idea of retrying (granted the catalog would have to get huge to replay a full season) some of the "fluke" teams. Could you go undefeated as 2002 Ohio State with all of those close wins? Could you win a national title with '97 Michigan or '00 Oklahoma with an underwhelming offense?
The potential catalogue is nearly endless, with so many schools and seasons.....I'm obviously going slowly, doing it all by hand (and excel). I just printed out 2013 FSU. Going to do 1991 Washington next, as the cards are all in excel already.
You could play great teams from the same school, see who comes out on top - 97 Michigan vs 85 Michigan or 2014 OSU against the 02 champs.....
Another fun idea would be replacing a past failure with a different season of your school - switch out the 08 Sooners and let the 2000 OU champs try their luck against 08 Florida.
I always have fond memories of that 2005 OSU team, which lost by an eyelash to National Champion Texas and 11-1 Penn State. They had five first rounders the next year, including AJ Hawk and Santonio Holmes, plus all the guys that returned for 2006 like Troy Smith and Ted Ginn.I've always felt that the 2005 Ohio State team was better than the 2006 and 2007 versions that played for it all.
The 1973 Ohio State team has already been mentioned as a great team that did not win the MNCThe really annoying thing about 1975 was that the Buckeyes had already beaten UCLA, in the Rosebowl (stadium, not bowl) earlier that season. On October 4, 1975 the Buckeyes won 41-20 at UCLA.
However my favorite would be the 1975 Ohio State team. It had everything you could want in a team. Still after all these year I find it hard to believe the lost to UCLA in the Rose Bowl. I always thought (though probably wrong) Woody would have retired with Archie leaving if they had won that game. Would have gone out on top instead of the Bauman incident.
It was '89. Oddly enough, that was his last game here and one of his worst.Sorry I meant to quote your post and quoted mine. Anyway, I think the 06 or 07 are better teams if only because Slaton and White were there for the entire season. In 05 they didn't start in the backfield together until the 7th game of the season. For most of the first half of the season White was getting about 1/3 of the snaps at QB and Slaton was chained to the bench as the 4th string RB.
I had a post on the old board about that '84 season, comparing it to the 2011 season (LSU BCS champs), as everybody who was next up on the podium to replace BYU as #1 kept screwing things up. That's probably the most interesting AP season poll to walk through week by week and look at the results. It was a musical chair game from the opening weekend to Jan. 1st.LSU was not BCS champs in the 2011 season. Lost 0-21 in the BCSNCG.
Washington was the best team in the Pac 10, but lost to USC (9-3), which USC got the Rose on the tiebreaker, finished 11-1
Washington beat OU in the Orange (OU finished 9-2-1), OU was the media choice to oust BYU had they beaten UW.
OU somehow lost to unranked Kansas that year, and tied Texas in a classic 1 v 2 game in a monsoon at the Cotton Bowl in October. The only conference that was blown off the map was the B1G which was bad in bowls and not impressive in OOC.
For whatever reason Washington wasn't viewed in high esteem to overtake BYU. I think they were 20 points short in final poll.
Florida was 9-1-1 (probation), lost opener to the Canes, and tied Sugar bowl bound LSU. Fla finished w 6 1st place votes.
Nebraska finished 10-2, but was upset as #1 team by 'Cuse in September, and then #6OU in November. Beat LSU in Sugar.
BC finished 10-2 losing
Okie State lost to guess who to finish 10-2.
SMU finished 10-2, two bad losses. beat ND in Aloha.
I think the #1 team AP progression went something like this, Auburn, Miami, Nebraska, Texas, Washington, (BYU entered top 5 by end of October), Nebraska (mid November, with South Carolina now 2nd), BYU going to #1 on 11/20th, OU, Ok St. and UF also getting 1st place votes, (there were always weeks with 3, 4, 5, 6, even 11 teams with first place votes in a single weekly poll, Clemson, Ohio St, Iowa, UCLA, Michigan, ND, ASU, Bama, Pitt all had a 1st place vote at some point that season). BYU started season as ARV in the AP top 20.
final poll
BYU 38
Wash 16
Fla 6
Neb
BC
OU
oSu
SMU
UCLA
USC
LSU was not BCS champs in the 2011 season. Lost 0-21 in the BCSNCG.maybe they meant 07.
maybe they meant 07.I knew he meant 2007. But that 2011 stood out like a sore thumb. :)
if they didn't then 07 is a still a good example of what they were discussing anyway. top teams dropping left and right. usc, lsu, osu, missouri, wvu all spent time at top and lost not long after gaining that spot.
In 2010, the Tolzein-as-a-senior led Badgers lost to a very good (11-2) Michigan State team in East Lansing in a game that I still remember being brutal to watch. I think that was the game Bielema was penalized in, costing the team momentum and a chance, but maybe I'm just looking for something to pin on him.You're thinking of the 2008 game. Brutal to watch, and even moreso because I was there.
You're thinking of the 2008 game. Brutal to watch, and even moreso because I was there.Yeah, we've discussed the 2008 game quite a bit. The Bielema penalty, the decision to pass the ball on 3rd down late, calling timeout to "ice" MSU's kicker with the clock running and MSU hustling the field goal team onto the field. BB blew that game. Wisconsin dominated play.
2010 was just Kirk Cousins being pretty damn good, and MSU getting a TD in the return game.
I had a post on the old board about that '84 season, comparing it to the 2011 season (LSU BCS champs), as everybody who was next up on the podium to replace BYU as #1 kept screwing things up. That's probably the most interesting AP season poll to walk through week by week and look at the results. It was a musical chair game from the opening weekend to Jan. 1st.That '84 OU-Texas game still burns Sooner fans. It was #1 Texas vs. #3 OU in a driving rain. Texas led 10-0 at halftime, having cashed in a bobbled snap by the punter on the OU 20 and a fumble by HB Spencer Tillman on the OU 26 into a TD and a FG. Texas returned the favor early in the 3rd quarter, fumbling the ball away at its own 6. OU scored a TD to make it 10-7. On Texas' next possession, OU got a quick stop and, on Texas' attempted punt, the ball sailed over the punter's head and through the end zone for a safety. 10-9 Texas now. After the ensuing free kick, OU marched down the field and scored a TD. The 2-point try failed. 15-10 OU. Texas got the ball and used two big plays to quickly sit on the OU 2. But the Sooners held on 4th down. OU couldn't move the ball and elected to take a safety rather than risk the punter botching the deep snap again. 15-12 OU. Texas got the ball back after the free kick near midfield with a little more than 2:00 left in the game. Helped by DPI and offside penalties, Texas got to OU's 15 with 10 seconds left. Texas tried to pass for the TD, and it looked like OU DB Keith Stanberry picked it off in the end zone. However, the closest official waved it off, saying that Stanberry had been juggling the ball as he went out of bounds. Texas then kicked a FG to tie it 15-15, to the disappointment of many Texas fans and the chagrin and anger of Sooner fans. Later, replays seemed to clearly confirm that Stanberry had cleanly intercepted the ball in the end zone, which would have salted away a 15-12 OU win. That one has lived in OU lore as one where we got "robbed," and (according to some) in Texas lore as the one where Fred Akers settled for a tie, thus dooming his coaching future in Austin.
Washington was the best team in the Pac 10, but lost to USC (9-3), which USC got the Rose on the tiebreaker, finished 11-1
Washington beat OU in the Orange (OU finished 9-2-1), OU was the media choice to oust BYU had they beaten UW.
OU somehow lost to unranked Kansas that year, and tied Texas in a classic 1 v 2 game in a monsoon at the Cotton Bowl in October. The only conference that was blown off the map was the B1G which was bad in bowls and not impressive in OOC.
For whatever reason Washington wasn't viewed in high esteem to overtake BYU. I think they were 20 points short in final poll.
For BC gotta take Flutie's team. Save a hard core college football fan, nobody is going to remember a thing about the '93 team aside from a screwball FG to beat ND. Hard to name a player outside of Gordon the PK. Ryan is a fine BC player, but nobody remembers that team.Whenever Doug Flutie is mentioned any West Virginia worth their salt has to pipe up that Flutie never beat WVU during his time at BC, most notably that '84 team. I have vivid memories of watching that game. It was the ABC national game with Keith Jackson and Frank Broyles. WVU was down 20-6 at halftime but scored a TD late on a John Gay run to take a 21-20 lead that ended up being the final score.
I'm not qualified to id the most memorable Illinois team for these purposes.
Okay....no love for Illinios or Minny...or BC.'99 Michigan was pretty good, but they liked platooning the greatest QB of all time maybe a bit too much.
How 'bout Michigan? Already made the 1997 team cards, but of their non-champs.....all the early 70s teams were good. But choose from '85, '91, or '06. 85 were near-miss champs, 91 was the Desmond Howard Heisman year. 06 they just missed out on the BCSNCG and only allowed 43 yards rushing per game.
'99 Michigan was pretty good, but they liked platooning the greatest QB of all time maybe a bit too much.Yeah, I brought that up earlier in the thread. Best Michigan team of my lifetime, better than the '97 team, particularly considering how good the Big Ten was in '99.
'99 Michigan was pretty good, but they liked platooning the greatest QB of all time maybe a bit too much.i think a little of this is revisionist history. i have only vague memory of mich that year aside from the orange bowl (in which he was brilliant, that bastard), but i don't remember brady being considered all that great, and his draft and college career stats back up that thought. am i misremembering?
i think a little of this is revisionist history. i have only vague memory of mich that year aside from the orange bowl (in which he was brilliant, that bastard), but i don't remember brady being considered all that great, and his draft and college career stats back up that thought. am i misremembering?No, you're right, at the time he certainly wasn't considered all that "great." He was a late 6th round draft pick, some even used the dreaded "p-word" for him.... "PROJECT."
having said that, goat or not, platooning qb's isn't a good plan in any circumstance, imo.
OSU's best seasons without a NC (won the NC in 1942, 54, 57, 61, 68, 70, 2002, 14)That '98 Buckeye team was damn good. You put them on a neutral field with Tennessee that year and I'd take Ohio St
undefeated, untied: 1916, 44, 2012
Undefeated with at least one tie: 1899, 1917, 73
One-loss: 1900, 06, 10, 15, 19, 20, 26, 32, 33, 34, 35, 41, 49, 58, 69, 75, 79, 93, 96, 98, 2006, 10, 15
Two losses: 1891, 1902, 05, 07, 13, 14, 21, 28, 30, 37, 39, 45, 55, 60, 64, 65, 72, 74, 76, 95, 2003, 05, 07, 09, 13, 16, 17(?)
the 1915 UNL team was 8-0, beat ND and won by an average score of 35-5 (average of pts scored vs pts given up for all 8 games).1915, okay....get me the QB, top 4 rushers, and top 6 receivers from that team....lol.
Okay....no love for Illinios or Minny...or BC.I love Minny, but I was 6 years and 2 days away from being born the last time they played in the Rose Bowl.
I love Minny, but I was 6 years and 2 days away from being born the last time they played in the Rose Bowl.Okay, so what's their best squad since the early 70s? It doesn't have to be great to be their best.
1915, okay....get me the QB, top 4 rushers, and top 6 receivers from that team....lol.QB's name was John Cook. The offense went through the HB.. his name was Guy Chamberlin.... perhaps you've heard of him.
Would the undefeated 1992 Michigan team get any love? They didn't lose a game, and their primary ball-carrier averaged 7.3 ypc.Big Ten sucked that year. Their win over a 3-loss Washington (which lost 3 of it's final 4, once QB Billy Jo Hobert went down IIRC) in the Rose Bowl was easily their best win of the year. After that? I guess beating 6 loss MSU and Indiana teams by 20+ points at home?
Would the undefeated 1992 Michigan team get any love?not from me
Okay, so what's their best squad since the early 70s? It doesn't have to be great to be their best.Since the early 70s it would have to be one of the Mason-coached teams, right? They had some tough, competitive teams under him. Not barn burners, but you know, it's Minnesota.
In 2003, Minnesota was 10-3, losing to Michigan (10-3), Michigan State (8-5), and Iowa (10-3). It was their first 10 win season since 1905. Little wonder as to why they won 10. They played 5 non-1A schools, one of which was a High School!Yeah, 2003 was their best team of my lifetime. They gagged away that Michigan game in epic fashion on Friday night (Twins playoff game Saturday), and their defense failed them against MSU and Iowa.
In researching this, 1903 really caught my eye. Minnesota beat Macalester 112-0, Grinnell 39-0, Lawrence 46-0, and Beloit 46-0. Today all of those schools are in the Midwest Conference in Division III. My grandson played for Beloit this year.
2003 was the last time Minny beat Wisconsin. So yeah, it's gotta be that year.Wow. Geez. That's... that's really rough. We've had some pretty bad losing streaks against rivals, but that would be debilitating to my enthusiasm for the sport.
In 2003, Minnesota was 10-3, losing to Michigan (10-3), Michigan State (8-5), and Iowa (10-3). It was their first 10 win season since 1905. Little wonder as to why they won 10. They played 5 non-1A schools, one of which was a High School!What?
In researching this, 1903 really caught my eye. Minnesota beat Macalester (MN) 112-0, Grinnell (IA) 39-0, Lawrence (WI) 46-0, and Beloit (WI) 46-0. Today all of those schools are in the Midwest Conference in Division III. My grandson played for Beloit this year.
| 8/30 | vs. | Tulsa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Tulsa.htm#2003) (8-5) | W | 49 | 10 |
| 9/6 | vs. | Troy (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Troy.htm#2003) (6-6) | W | 48 | 7 |
| 9/13 | @ | Ohio (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Ohio.htm#2003) (2-10) | W | 42 | 20 |
| 9/20 | vs. | Louisiana-Lafayette (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Louisiana-Lafayette.htm#2003) (4-8) | W | 48 | 14 |
What?He was talking about the 1903 team. Same year, different century. :)
Minnesota's OOC opponents were
8/30 vs. Tulsa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Tulsa.htm#2003) (8-5) W 49 10 9/6 vs. Troy (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Troy.htm#2003) (6-6) W 48 7 9/13 @ Ohio (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Ohio.htm#2003) (2-10) W 42 20 9/20 vs. Louisiana-Lafayette (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Louisiana-Lafayette.htm#2003) (4-8) W 48 14
He was talking about the 1903 team. Same year, different century. :)I should have quoted the passage to which I was responding.
In 2003, Minnesota was 10-3, losing to Michigan (10-3), Michigan State (8-5), and Iowa (10-3). It was their first 10 win season since 1905. Little wonder as to why they won 10. They played 5 non-1A schools, one of which was a High School!1903 Minnesota was 14-0-1.
I should have quoted the passage to which I was responding.1903 Minnesota was 14-0-1.1905 was the year they mentioned and minn went 10-1 and played those small non-con teams, just like most teams during that period did.
In 1977, Texas had 5 different players throw an interception and had 4 different players punt at least 3 times....5 players threw a pick and four guys punted at least 3 times? That's hard to believe.
So we've got 77, 81, 83, then 08 and 09. I like 08 over 09 because McCoy was better and had two 1000 yard WRs...but the 09 defense was much better.
77 has Earl Campbell and nobody really stands out for me in 81 or 83. Anyone with more to contribute?
In 2003, Minnesota was 10-3, losing to Michigan (10-3), Michigan State (8-5), and Iowa (10-3). It was their first 10 win season since 1905. Little wonder as to why they won 10. They played 5 non-1A schools, one of which was a High School!Here's the quote. The reference to Minnesota going 10-3 after playing 5 non-1A schools, one of which was a high school, is for 2003. Not 1903 or 1905. Minnesota did indeed go 10-3 in 2003, but it didn't play any non-1A schools.
In researching this, 1903 really caught my eye. Minnesota beat Macalester (MN) 112-0, Grinnell (IA) 39-0, Lawrence (WI) 46-0, and Beloit (WI) 46-0. Today all of those schools are in the Midwest Conference in Division III. My grandson played for Beloit this year.
Here's the quote. The reference to Minnesota going 10-3 after playing 5 non-1A schools, one of which was a high school, is for 2003. Not 1903 or 1905. Minnesota did indeed go 10-3 in 2003, but it didn't play any non-1A schools.Sorry I couldn't draw you a picture because reading comprehension is obviously not your forte. You are the only one on the forum that did not understand to which I was referring. Not once , not twice, but three times. You struck out on all three years in question!
The second paragraph of the quote addresses 1903, which seems to fit the description teams played by the "2003" team mentioned in the first paragraph, except that Minnesota went 14-0-1, not 10-3, in 1903, and played 6 non-1A schools, not 5.
In 1905, Minnesota played 5 non-1A schools, but went 10-1, not 10-3.
Hence my question.
Sorry I couldn't draw you a picture because reading comprehension is obviously not your forte. You are the only one on the forum that did not understand to which I was referring. Not once , not twice, but three times. You struck out on all three years in question!Ah, I see that you can't explain what you were trying to say.
In my years of paying attention, I'd think the 1998 Buckeyes or 2002 Trojans are way up there. 1996 Buckeyes too, perhaps.I don't think anyone would "throttle" that Miami team, lol.
I think the 2002 Trojan team would have throttled either Miami or OSU that year in an MNC game. They were lights out by the end of the season. Heckuva SOS too.
Yeah, I brought that up earlier in the thread. Best Michigan team of my lifetime, better than the '97 team, particularly considering how good the Big Ten was in '99.Wow, I think that 97 team had the best college defense I ever laid eyes on too.
i think a little of this is revisionist history. i have only vague memory of mich that year aside from the orange bowl (in which he was brilliant, that bastard), but i don't remember brady being considered all that great, and his draft and college career stats back up that thought. am i misremembering?Sure I'll give you the hindsight's 20/20 for sure, but recall that it just seemed like that season M was doing magical things with Brady under center (the PSU comeback is first to mind for obvious reasons) and that it seemed like they had Henson playing b/c they were afraid of him transferring or giving up football altogether.
having said that, goat or not, platooning qb's isn't a good plan in any circumstance, imo.
Need some help with Indiana - you guys remember any of these years?Lee Corso's 79 team won the Holiday Bowl over BYU
8-4 back in 1979.....any notes???
I was 9 or 10 when Vaughn Dunbar was at IU and thought he was awesome because he was one of the first to wear a dark visor.Yes
Colorado curb stomped Nebraska in the final game of the regular season, then won the Big XII CCG the following week.Ah, that's right - CU beat UNL and then Texas, and people were considering a 2-loss Buffaloes team to play for the NC. It was unheard of back then....and yet just six years later, LSU pulled off the feat.
That was the year that the Huskers played in the NC game, even though they didn't win their division.
1998 Purdue memory (the latter is not what it once was).Brees 55-83, 494 yards, 2 TDs, four picks.
Brees threw like 85 passes and completed 55 of them. Dayne ran for 250? yards. I dunno. It was a lot.
"Jump Around" was played for the first ever time at Camp Randall. Home night game.
Cool game to be at.
That Purdue team went on to shock Kansas State in the Alamo Bowl.
OSU wasn't even Bowl eligible in 1999.
OSU wasn't even Bowl eligible in 1999.A lot of that had to do with how incredibly good the conference was that year. The Buckeyes went 6-6 that year. Usually a team that goes 6-6 loses to some bad teams, but not Ohio State that year. The teams they lost to were:
Colorado curb stomped Nebraska in the final game of the regular season, then won the Big XII CCG the following week.was awesome
That was the year that the Huskers played in the NC game, even though they didn't win their division.
I don't mind you, an OSU fan, messing with me there, but when a UNL fan screws up being critical of my accurate correction, that's too much.now, what did I do?
:96:
Okay, so what's their best squad since the early 70s? It doesn't have to be great to be their best.Just found this thread.
Gonna be 76 in LA today.leaving the 70s of Phoenix in the morning for the single digits of Indiana and Ohio. Almost don't want to go see the kids and grand kids
Alright, 1976 or 2001 for Maryland?1993.
1993, 1998, 1999, 2006, or 2017 for Wisconsin???
Definitely not taking the time to make a 2017 UCF team card set, sorry.maybe someday when you're retired and have some extra time
I don’t know if they’ve been mentioned but OU in 1978 was one of the Sooners great teams. They started off the season beating a good Stanford team in Palo Alto, and took out #6 Texas convincingly. Only loss was 17-14 to Nebraska in Lincoln, which they avenged by beating the Huskers in the Orange Bowl. OU rushed for 5001 yards which is second alltime at OU and Billy Sims won the Heisman. Good D too. Finished 3rd in the AP.That team was Switzer's best not to win the NC. Lots of knowledgeable Sooner fans think it was his best team period. I think they had 11 fumbles, losing 6 of them, in the loss in Lincoln. Billy Sims lost a fumble late as they were driving for the winning TD, on a run in which he broke 3-4 tackles before coughing up the ball.
1993.Really? My favorite team, but the best of that group?
That team was Switzer's best not to win the NC. Lots of knowledgeable Sooner fans think it was his best team period. I think they had 11 fumbles, losing 6 of them, in the loss in Lincoln. Billy Sims lost a fumble late as they were driving for the winning TD, on a run in which he broke 3-4 tackles before coughing up the ball.Switzer himself has said, this was his best team
OU wouldn't have been in that game without Sims, but it was his fumble that clinched the loss. Damn!
The last game trial I played was 1995 Florida @ 1985 Oklahoma. Gators won, 31-7. Some notes:Don't lie, you built in a fix like the anti-Pippen bug in the arcade NBA Jam
*It needs more possessions - 10 isn't enough - not enough total plays being run. I'll go with 12 possessions next time.
*The defense cards need tweaking - when you play the "key on deep pass", it's too much of a penalty on a running play. The OU defense was keying on pass mostly, which allowed UF to run really well.
Conversely, UF keyed on OU's inside run, so the Sooners kept falling short of making first downs. Part of it was the UF defense keying on it, part of it was the luck of the draw of the cards. OU routinely would get 9 yards on a possession, but have to punt.
OU's passing stats were crap, even with UF keying on the run. If they'd hit a few passes, the game would've been a lot closer, but the Sooners threw 2 INT and had a ton of incomplete passes.
Florida, itself, threw 2 INTs, but each completion seemed to go for an easy first down.
So I need to change the defense cards from 'key on this, give up more on that' to more of a 'key on this, doesn't affect that much at all' type of thing. And yes, there is a base defense option, in which you don't key on anything, specifically, and just accept the offensive play outcome.
*I was unsure about how many plays had to be called before you could put used play cards back into your deck, but this game revealed an answer to that. I was thinking 25 or so (out of the 40 play cards - 10 each of inside run, outside run, short pass, long pass), but since I didn't use 25 plays in either half for either team, it became obvious that I refill my play cards deck at halftime. Even with additional possessions, this makes sense. Very glad the fix revealed itself.
Really? My favorite team, but the best of that group?1993 lost one game, on a fluke night, to a hated rival. They play 9 more times and UW wins all 9.
The earlier consensus here seemed to be '98, though I probably would have gone with '99. '17 is too hard for me to process right now.
Don't lie, you built in a fix like the anti-Pippen bug in the arcade NBA JamWell I need outcomes like this to help me tinker with the game. Sure, I love the 96 Gators, but their defense wasn't special. Maybe a 97 Michigan or a 92 Bama could wreck OU's option, but with this outcome, I can see that the "key on inside run" was too punitive to the offense.
1993 lost one game, on a fluke night, to a hated rival. They play 9 more times and UW wins all 9.'93 'Sconnie it is....the Bastage has spoken.
1998 lost one game, and in that one they were completely outclassed by Michigan.
1999 was a good team by the end, but I can't get past the Cincinnati loss and that they struggled with Stanford.
1993 lost one game, on a fluke night, to a hated rival. They play 9 more times and UW wins all 9.Oh God that Minnesota game. One of the few games I traveled to while a student (at least '95 Penn State was the flip side of the coin). Rivalry game with so many turnovers.
1998 lost one game, and in that one they were completely outclassed by Michigan.
1999 was a good team by the end, but I can't get past the Cincinnati loss and that they struggled with Stanford.
Oh God that Minnesota game. One of the few games I traveled to while a student (at least '95 Penn State was the flip side of the coin). Rivalry game with so many turnovers.2010 or 2011 would have been undefeated with the coaching staff in place today. I think, top-to-bottom, this staff is the best staff UW has ever had - 1993 included.
I still think 2010 and 2011 might really be the ones--or '17, but '93 it is (OAM has spoken and it's his game).
Switzer himself has said, this was his best teamAnd he usually knew what he was talking about.
Can I make a suggestion for punt returns. Maybe I missed it but I didn’t see a chance for the returner to lose yards. Maybe change it to roll 1-lose few yards, 2 fair catch, 3- short gain, 4-normal gain, 5-big gain, and 6- get a chance to roll again if you get 6 again it’s a huge gain or even td, if not it’s just like rolling a 5. Or did I overlook the chance for losing yards on punt return?Once it gets to that step, I'll mail out a couple of team card sets and the game components to you and whoever else wants to play-test it. I'll probably request you keep a play log (like "Henry run 2 yds" or "Newton INT by Lester") to help with keeping track of things.
Also I’d love to get a set of teams and play some games and give you my results. If you’d like that help anyway. This is a great idea.
Best UCLA team of the last 40 years?Yeah that 1998 team was primed to go play Tennessee for the NC, then lost the makeup game to Miami on that crazy final Saturday of the season when Texas A&M also lost, and suddenly FSU was there.
The 1998 team peaked at #2. Aikman's '88 squad got to #1. Best teams are all 10-2 or so.
Anger-clicking random things I don't ordinarily click yielded some results.could be fun to do an all time sec vs an all time b1g game. or whenever you get enough card sets for each team, do an all time bama vs all time gators, etc.
Until I laid all these QB cards out, I hadn't thought about creating seasons past and playing them out, including how defunct conferences. Or even an all-star conference schedule and see how your team does would be cool.
I made 2001 Maryland's QB card and one for Temple ('79) to complete the Big East fantasy conference. The QB cards are the easy part, making 40 offense cards is the toughie. The defense and special teams cards are easy, though.
ELA might have experience with this - creating all-time teams on a video game, and only being allowed one #1 jersey or one #12. So you have to decide is this QB the best to wear this jersey number, or would that safety from 10 years ago be more valuable as #12, because my school has depth at QB historically.We did All-Decade teams for each Big Ten on here back in like 2010. Then I pulled out all of my old NCAA video games, with the rosters I modified as I simmed through the seasons, to pull the ratings of the players we selected to assemble those all time teams. The ultimate plan was to have them complete a full round robin against each other, but the project wound up being too large. But it did happen there. SOmetimes it was fun. Sometimes it was like, oh Illinois had a couple guys make the team as depth OL who both wore #67, I'll give one #66, and then finding out that the guy we voted as a starting OT on the team also wore #66, so then I'd go back and change the other. So it wound up becoming more frustrating than anything.
Fun stuff.
4 of each might be enoughI was thinking that, too, but.....for many teams, you'd end up with 4 WR or 3 WR and a TE, with no passes to RBs. That doesn't feel very realistic. So for that reason, I made it 6 pass-catchers, to get that slot and 4th WR and/or a 2nd TE who might've been prominent, but mostly for the RBs to get a few "Short Pass" cards. That way, the WRs aren't saddled with a bunch of short gains and can have longer ones - again, for realism.
One other thing I forgot - the more way-down-the-depth chart guys you have carrying the ball, the less realistic it is. You end up with guys you KNOW only got garbage-time carries in blowouts getting the ball in the 2nd quarter, which is a big turn-off, imo.I think that's a universal thing. If you do the WhatIf simulations, the touches generally kind of mirror their season totals proportionately. But it means some guy who got 25ish carries on the season spread out over three 4th quarter blowouts where he got 7-8 carries in those three games, is getting 2-3 touches in a close game.
Even with 4 ball-carriers, playing with the '96 Gators, I end up with the 4th-string RB getting a carry here and there all throughout the game. Doesn't work. I'm definitely not smart enough to relegate those guys to only getting carries late in blowout games, so it's just best to limit their existence in the game to begin with, ya know?
why does it have to be a hard rule of 4rd/6wr or vice versa? why can't it vary based on each team and how they used their players?It doesn't have to be 4 ball carriers/6 pass catchers, that's just what I came up with. As in my last post, I just want that feeling of realism.
why cant rb's that are in top 4-5 of catches for a team have a second receiving card or have those stats available on his rb card?
also, do you include 2nd string qb? if we aren't worried about a 2nd string qb who got 35 passes on the season, why are we worried about a 4th rb who got 20 touches or 6th wr with 12 catches?
Oklahoma's Belldozer - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjSDv47wOfk)
2012 ou, jones and bell.
Oklahoma's Belldozer - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjSDv47wOfk)So for this guy, we've got 16 pass attempts, so no need to create a QB card for him. He was basically a short-yardage FB for the Sooners in 2012.
for most but the rushing option offenses we've discussedHmm, ok. So maybe then instead of a minimum number of attempts, how about a % of the stater's attempts.....like half or a third? That makes sense.
I would guess some of the great teams had a great starting QB and the backup merely played during mop up time
Maybe make it 25%? I don't want to go overboard with this, but I don't want to be exclusionary, either. The game would be more fun with more QB choices than with less.
I'm sure that's part of what made them NC teams, lol. Maybe I should just eyeball it and make a judgement call, team-by-team.i think this is where i'd go, if you are either familiar with how that team operated or if you can find decent sources to inform you of their operation (posters here could be a significant source of that info, imo). if that's to much of a task, then i'd do close to 1/3.
Tua is right at 30%, yeah, but when a guy has 11 TD passes, even as a backup, that's something. And don't short-sell his 4% lead on Hurts in completion %. If you played a season of this game, I think you would see that difference.
taking bama this year into consideration, tua had right at 30% att and 30% yards passing that hurts had. but, aside from the title game, tua played 0 meaningful minutes. he played a TON in the 3rd and 4th qtrs for a backup, but we were winning by 15+. his only game with ANY att with the game in question was the title game.
question is, do you include him? looking at stats, i'm not sure it'd have an effect either way (almost identical to hurts in comp%, y/a, and worse but not bad td/int ratio). so more than likely, if you put a card or 2 for him in there, the result is gonna be really similar to hurts, even though they're different style players. *as a side note, this is a good example of the undue ridicule hurts gets, imo. he wasn't perfect by any means, but he was still pretty good.
Looking at some helmet teams, year-by-year, seeing which squads would warrant 2 QB cards:Well at least for the Nebraska QBs, the backup has very nearly the same attempts as the top guy. In one case, the difference is only 1 attempt. So whether it was getting a huge early lead the putting the next guy in at halftime or what, I think it warrants a card for both QBs. I bet many other factors played a role, too: minor injuries, the backup getting some time when the game was still in doubt, discipline/suspensions, etc.
Nebraska - 1975, 77, 79, 81, 84, 85, 90, 92, 98, 07, 13
Alabama - 1973, 74, 75, 81, 84, 87, 91, 95, 01, 02, 04
Notre Dame - 1975, 77, 80, 81, 83, 87, 00, 07, 10
So that's quite a few - more than I would've guessed. I assume most big-time programs are similar to these, maybe fewer if they ditched the option earlier on, idk.
Hmmph. This has been sort of a rabbit hole, but I'm glad we've gone down it, and again, creating a QB card is quick and easy. So might as well make 'em.
There's no strength of schedule component here, it's just the stats. It pre-supposes the teams are on a relatively even level - that's why I did all of the national champs first and then each school's best team.I assumed the first.
The only way to make it so a non-P5 team with good stats would consistently lose to a big-boy team with good stats wold be to alter them. I'm not going there.
Now, a crappy Iowa State or Vandy team is likely to get spanked consistently, were I to make their cards, because they were on the same level as big-boy teams, in terms of SOS. They have crappy stats, so they'll perform crappy.
I assumed the first.See, this is sort of an issue with the defense. What I originally envisioned was just a game with all-time great teams, so the average defense of those great teams would have little influence on the offense and great defenses would have a greater influence. As long as the only teams created were great, like a closed system, that would work out fine.
As for the second, I was just curious as to the margins, how effectively large the gap was. Could you EVER win with those teams? Are you able to win too often with those teams? Or is the gap too big, and you are consistently losing 82-0 with those teams. Just curious as to how the game translates to non-evenish teams.
I was just looking at them - Major Harris is one of my first in-person memories. I went to the WV-Clemson Gator Bowl in 87 or 88. Harris is one of those great under-the-radar (in a historical sense) guys who were awesome.He was just freaking amazing. One of the best players I ever saw. I think historically he probably doesn't get the credit he deserves because the 1989 team was just decimated by graduation and he spent the majority of that season running for his life.